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Fact:
My grandmother was Sarah Ball born circa 1887 ( based on age on marriage cert as 28 and marriage in 1915)
I know of Sarah from the marriage certificate for my Granddad-Claude Edgar Wallace
The marriage cert shows Sarah's father as John Ball(Deceased) Potter, journeyman.
I know from census records that Sarah was born in Staffordshire.

Guesswork:
Trying to go back further I have located a Sarah Ball aged 5 on the 1891 census living at Barker Passage, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire.

The head of the family is James Ball born 1820
Wife Mary Ball born 1821
Daughter Emma Ball born 1853
Granddaughter Sarah Ball Born 1886

On looking into the birth register for Sarah it shows only the name of the mother but PRIVATE where fathers name should be.

I have three issues really that I would appreciate any help with...

Firstly, how can I verify this is the correct Sarah, or am I fixating just because the name/location and DOB loosely ties up?

Secondly, The PRIVATE note on the birth register and lack of father on the census, is the register entry standard if someone refused to name the father? I haven't come across this before.

Lastly, the fact that on Sarah's marriage certificate states her father was a John Ball (Deceased). Could it have been standard practice to make up a parental detail if she was illegitimate?

Sorry for the long winded explanation but just trying to provide as much detail as possible.
Many thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed.

????

Record Transcription:
1911 Census For England & Wales

47 Fernthorpe Road Streatham London S W, Wandsworth Borough, London & Surrey, England
Claude Edgar Wallace's Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Claude Edgar Wallace Head Married Male 25 1886 Tailor Chelsea S W
Sarah Wallace Wife Married Female 22 1889 - Staffordshire
Frank Edgar Wallace Son - Male 2 1909 - Streatham S W
Ivy Lillian Wallace Daughter - Female 0 1911 - -

Yes, that is my grandmother Sarah.
I have details of her life in London but am trying to work backwards to her birth circumstances.

To answer a couple of your questions.

Yes, it was quite common for an illegitimate person to make up a deceased father’s name for a MC. Giving an occupation is less usual. Unless proven otherwise she might have combined a stepfathers first name with her own surname.

Where have you seen Private given as the named father? That’s not something I’ve come across. If a child is illegitimate & the mother unmarried, then that section on the birth certificate is left blank.

The husband of a married woman is always presumed to be the father unless some other man attends the register office & accepts paternity. You can get some odd situations when a husband is supposed to have fathered a child 10 years after he had died!

Where have you looked for a birth reg? Does Sarah Ball give a Staffordshire town on any of the census?

The basic search site most people use is
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Once you’ve identified the most likely birth, search on https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

You will have to register first. The advantage over Freebmd is that it gives the mother’s maiden name prior to 1911. If one is not listed, then the mother was unmarried.

Staffordshire BMD can be searched on http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk
That also gives mother’s maiden name. A blank column indicates the mother was unmarried.

Just working backwards

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
WALLACE, IVY LILIAN BALL Order
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 612

--------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1915 (>99%)
Ball Sarah Wallace Wandsworth 1d 1993
Mears Miriam F Taylor Wandsworth 1d 1993
Taylor Richard Mears Wandsworth 1d 1993
Wallace Claude E [BP]all Wandsworth 1d 1993

1911 census says married 4 years! 2 children born and still alive
Only says Staffordshire for Sarah's pob

Sarah could be the illegitimate daughter of Emma Ball born 1853

This is that birth GRO record that indicates mmn was also Ball


BALL, SARAH - Order
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 275

However there two years diff is she was born c1886,

Plus on the 1911 census a march reg birth would be listed still as 1888 not 1889

the 1891 you think might be her

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Barker Passage, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Ball Head Married Male 71 1820 Coal Miner Shropshire, England
Mary Ball Wife Married Female 70 1821 - Shropshire, England
Emma Ball Daughter Single Female 38 1853 Potters Transferer Staffordshire, England
Sarah Ball Granddaughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Staffordshire, England

James and Mary both born in what probably says Dunnington Wood, Shropshire.
Emma and Sarah in Stoke on Trent

Looks like Claude died in ww1

Claude Edgar Wallace
Birth Place: Chelsea, Middx.
Death Date: 21 Jul 1918
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Wandsworth, Surrey
Rank: Private
Regiment: Army Ordnance Corps
Regimental Number: 031157
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Other Records: Search for 'Claude Edgar Wallace' in other WWI collections
War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany): Search for 'Army Ordnance Corps' in the WWI War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany) collection
War Diaries (Gallipoli): Search for 'Army Ordnance Corps' in the WWI War Diaries (Gallipoli) collection


Was hoping to find them on the 1939 register which would show her actual birthdate

Did she remarry after Claude died

Purely on the reg district is this a possible

SARAH
Last name WALLACE
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1919
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™
SARAH WALLACE married one of these people
Alfred Talmage
Spouse's last name Talmage
District Wandsworth
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Volume as transcribed 1D
Page number 1330
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

Looks a possible


Talmage Household (3 People)
19 Foss Road , Wandsworth, London, England
Add to tree View original image Print
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Alfred (Thomas) Talmage 18 Dec 1882 Unemployed Painter
Sarah Talmage 04 Jan 1888 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Alfred Thomas Talmage 27 Mar 1921 Cabinet Maker
Ref: RG101/0598B/017/2 Letter Code:
© Findmypast Ltd

Yes that's the right family

Births Jun 1921
Talmage Alfred T Ball Wandsworth 1d 1255

So her birth wil be reg mar qtr 1888 and that birth I posted looks very likely

Do you know when Sarah died? If so, what was her age then?

Only two births reg for mar qtr

Births Mar 1888 (>99%)
BALL Sarah Stoke T 6b 275
BALL Sarah Alice Congleton 8a 292

She wasn't Sarah Alice so it's back to the stoke on trent one


Deaths Dec 1963 (>99%)
TALMAGE SARAH 75 Wandsworth 5d 766

Marriage:
Name: Sarah Wallace (widow, age 31)
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1888
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1919
Marriage Place: Summers Town, Wandsworth, England
Father: Henry Ball (pottery assistant)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Alfred Talmage
Register Type: Parish Register
Witnesses: Margaret Fisher & William E Poulter

Matching birth date on the 1939 register:

Christening:
Name: Sarah Ball
Gender: Female
Christening Age: 0
Birth Date: 4 Jan 1888<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Christening Date: 17 Jan 1888
Christening Place: Longton, Staffordshire, England
Mother: Emma Ball

Talmage Household (3 People)
19 Foss Road , Wandsworth, London, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Sarah Talmage 04 Jan 1888 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 208 2
Alfred (Thomas) Talmage 18 Dec 1882 Male Unemployed Painter Married 208 1
Alfred Thomas Talmage 27 Mar 1921 Male Cabinet Maker Single 208 3

DOB would fit a Q1 1888 registration.

If the correct person it would seem that the 1891 census is either wrong or her age is recorded wrongly by 2 years

I think the transcription is wrong on that 1891 census. I believe Sarah is recorded as age 3 on the original.

??
You could well be right AQ but the little dash that cuts through the vertical line to the right of the number made me think more likely a 5 ? There are examples where the given age has to be 5 or 15 with the 5 looking the same e.g. Joseph Plant - 6 pages further on seems clear
Archive reference RG12 Piece number 2181
Folio 25 Page 43
or the total males on page 34 of same reference

I'd much rather it be 3, but the 1881 birth cert. might prove one way or the other

Safc, +++DetEcTive+++, Shirley, Austin, Greyghost, Argyll Gran.
You are all correct, yes Sarah did marry Claude Wallace and have two children Frank (my father) & Ivy my aunt.

Claude was killed at the end of WWII and is buried in Terlincthun military cemetery.
After Claude's death Sarah went on to marry Alfred Talmadge and had one son.
At the time of her second marriage her fathers name is shown as Henry Ball- A Potter

On Sarah's marriage cert dated 11/8/1915 it shows her age as 28, which would give a year of birth as 1887.
The 1891 census shows her as being 5, giving a year of birth as 1886.
More accurately ( if this is the correct Sarah, I have a copy of the page of the Baptism book in the town of Longton, Staffordshire in the year 1888.
This shows a baptism date of 17/1/88 , in the side of the page is date of 4/1/88, so I am assuming this was the birth date.
It is on this baptism page that it shows Mother as Emma Ball and PRIVATE instead of a fathers name. The address listed is 10 Mount Pleasant.
Looking up this address, there was a Mount Pleasant Hospital in Longton at this time.
There are 8 entries on the page and Sarah's baptism is the only one with this on it, so I can only assume the Mother, Emma either did not know or did not want to name the father.

The 1891 census that shows, Sarah, Emma, James & Mary does show Sarah's mother Emma worked as a potters transferer, so maybe this is where Sarah got the idea of putting potter as her supposed fathers ( John Ball) occupation of potter on her marriage cert.
Her second marriage states father as Henry Ball-Potter.

Sarah died in 1962 ( Q1 I believe).

I suppose what I am trying to do is confirm that the Longton born Sarah, born 1886-1888, daughter of Emma, Granddaughter of James & Mary, is the same Sarah that married Claude Wallace.
There is just this nagging doubt, as both marriage certs have different fathers names.

I suppose sometimes we just have to accept some things just can't be found :-(

Private in that context will probably mean Private baptism - not that the Father's name was Private.

Often used if child not expected to survive and also
if rich parents so not "done" with everyone else or done at private homes and
possibly for illegitimate children.

Another answer if googling is - any lay person can carry out - a midwife or poor parents who couldn't afford to pay. Names of children baptised like this would be given to the church and it was up to the incumbent if he recorded them. they might later have a full Christening

Well I would still go with here being Emma's daughter . Emma's occ is potter ??? And the enumerator has added earth to it

Born 1888 her birth had to be registered

Plus she gave a different fathers name on her second marriage cert implying she forgot who she gave when she married Claude

It's not unusual for an illegitimate child to make up a fathers name and say deceased to save face . Also saying deceased meant it couldn't be checked on