Find Ancestors

This lady was born c1884,probably in Glasgow area.I have her marriage certificate in 1905 to Thomas Devine.She's given as aged 20,with parents given as John Docherty & Helen (nee Campbell).I cannot find her birth with these parents details,nor can I find her parents marriage.(I have found an 1871 entry on Scotlands People for a John & Ellen Campbell,& also one in 1889,but they don't seem to fit 100% ? Struggling with census info too.I can't find all 3 on 1891 or 1901 censuses,& can't find a John & Helen on 1881 I have found a census entry for them stating John born 1855 in Kirkintilloch,with Helen born there too in 1857,but,again,it doesn't seem to fit 100%. I've found a Helen born 1856 in Kirkintilloch,& that could possibly be correct.
Any help much appreciated to help finish off the Brand/Devine side of my family tree.
THANK YOU.

It doesn't look as if they were actually 'married' :

; with the option of ten days' imprisonment William Cannon, miner; Thomas Cannon, miner; John Docherty, miner ; and Helen Campbell .or Docherty. all hailing from Burn Row, Slamannan. were placed at the bar a charge committing breach the peace 12th December
16 December 1891 - Falkirk Herald - Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland

Dea x

Jeeezzz,thank you.

I am not getting very far as I really need a subscription to Scotlandpeople but I was wondering about this family?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Cart Road, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Campbell Head Married Male 51 1840 Iron Moulder Stirlingshire, Scotland
Mary Campbell Wife Married Female 50 1841 - Renfrewshire, Scotland
Alex Campbell Son Unmarried Male 18 1873 Iron Moulder Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland
James Campbell Son - Male 15 1876 Iron Moulder Stirlingshire, Scotland
***Mary Campbell Adopted Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Stirlingshire, Scotland

I was working on the asumption that Mary could very well have started off with the name Campbell and these people have an 'adopted daughter' with that name of the right age. However, I have been unable to link them up with a possible daughter named Helen ??? so it is probably just a 'red herring' ?

Might be worth looking into though?

Dea x

I'll have a look,cheers.

Dea, that report doesn't necessarily mean the John and Helen weren't married. In Scotland, for legal purposes, we married women don't lose our maiden names. My great grandfather was mugged in the 1890s and his wife's statement describes her as Annie McVey or Ross and they were certainly married.

1891???????????

Name: John Docherty
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 489
Registration district: Slamannan
Civil Parish: Slamannan
County: Stirlingshire
Address: No 4 Lochside
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 38
LINE: 4
Roll: CSSCT1891_155
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Gorman 38
Jane Gorman 54
Jessie Gorman 21
John Docherty 25

Paul, what was her father's occupation on the marriage certificate please? We're her parents still living? What was her address please?

That could well be him Erika. Marys fathers occupation was an Iron Moulder,both parents still living & the address looks like 37,Cameron Street,Glasgow.

That's the one I have been looking at - but I found who I think is him and he seems to have joined the Highland Light Infantry in 1883 and stayed with them for several years.

I have also found this 'Campbell' family living in Burnrow in 1891 (the address for Helen + John later that year was also 'Burn Row' - I cannot yet connect them to Helen though.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Burnrow, Slamannan, Slamanan, Stirlingshire, Scotland

James Campbell Head Married Male 38 1853 Coal Miner Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
Mary Campbell Wife Married Female 37 1854 Coal Miner Wife Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
Thomas Campbell Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Stirlingshire, Scotland
John Campbell Son - Male 3 1888 - Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
James Campbell Son - Male 1 1890 - Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland

Dea x

That's interesting about retaining the maiden name after marriage Rootgatherer. - I knew that women were often recorded under their maiden names on census's but I didn't realise the two names were used together like that.

Dea x

That still happens today, Dea.


Paul -
you say "I cannot find her birth with these parents details."
Have you looked at many birth certs on SP? (6 credits per view; purchase min 30 credits for £7.50)

This is Mary & Thomas's marriage - in Milton:

DOCHERTY
MARY
DEVINE
THOMAS
1906
644/8 17
Milton



So maybe (just maybe) this is her birth -

DOCHERTY
MARY
F
1886
644/8 1385
Milton

Or, if she was born Campbell, there are these possibilities (assuming no middle name):

CAMPBELL
MARY
F
1885
644/8 292
Milton


CAMPBELL
MARY
F
1885
644/8 297
Milton


CAMPBELL
MARY
F
1886
644/8 1487
Milton

Maybe ??
Age a couple of years out from that stated at marriage - but in Milton, and right parents' names:

Mary Docherty
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: Mary Docherty
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's name: John Docherty
Mother's name: Ellen Docherty
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/8
Registration district: Milton <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Glasgow St George in the Fields
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 76 No Woodside Rd
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 55
Household schedule number: 53
LINE: 4
Roll: CSSCT1891_272
Household Members:
Name Age
John Docherty 36
Ellen Docherty 34
John Docherty 9
Mary Docherty 7
Bridget Docherty 5
Ellen Docherty 2
Patrick Docherty 6 Mo


EDIT:
Ah, I see this is the one you've already found, with John born Kirkintilloch.

??? John & Ellen/Helen's marriage:

DOCHARTY
JOHN
CAMPBELL
HELEN
1879
498/ 41
Kirkintilloch

Mary's not with them in 1901:

John Docherty
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: John Docherty
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Ellen Docherty
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkintilloch, Dumbarton
Registration Number: 644/9
Registration district: Kelvin
Civil Parish: Glasgow St George in the Fields
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 37 Cameron St
Occupation: Iron Moulder
ED: 95
Household schedule number: 125
LINE: 13
Roll: CSSCT1901_302
Household Members:
Name Age
John Docherty 44
Ellen Docherty 41
Bridget Docherty 16
Ellen Docherty 13
Annie Docherty 6

I think this is the Docherty family in 1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
49, Slamannan, Stirlingshire, Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Michael Docharty Head Widower Male 45 1836 Coal Miner Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Bernard Docharty Son Unmarried Male 18 1863 Coal Miner Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
John Docharty Son Unmarried Male 16 1865 Coal Miner Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Michael Docharty Son - Male 10 1871 Scholar Lanarkshire, Scotland


You have shown John living at Lochside on 1891 - also at Lochside is brother Michael:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Lochside, Slamannan, Slamanan, Stirlingshire, Scotland

- Moore Head Widow Female 55 1836 - Ireland
Thomas Moore Son Unmarried Male 20 1871 Coal Miner Stirlingshire, Scotland
William Moore Son Unmarried Male 16 1875 Coal Miner Stirlingshire, Scotland
Daniel Dolan Son Unmarried Male 10 1881 Scholar Stirlingshire, Scotland
Will Whalen Grandson Unmarried Male 4 1887 Scholar Stirlingshire, Scotland
**Michal Docherty Boarder Unmarried Male 20 1871 Coal Miner Stirlingshire, Scotland


Father Michael is at a different address:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Barnsmuir Colliery House, Slamannan, Slamanan, Stirlingshire, Scotland

William Yeardly Head Married Male 47 1844 Coal Miner Lanarkshire, Scotland
Christina Yeardly Wife Married Female 49 1842 - Lanarkshire, Scotland
John Yeardly Son Unmarried Male 14 1877 Coal Miner Lanarkshire, Scotland
Mary Yeardly Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1879 Scholar Midlothian, Scotland
Henry Yeardly Son Unmarried Male 10 1881 Scholar Midlothian, Scotland
Christina Yeardly Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Midlothian, Scotland
Helen Yeardly Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Stirlingshire, Scotland
Michael Docherty Lodger Widower Male 46 1845 Coal Miner Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Michael Docherty's Census Details
Details taken from the original census record.

Dea x

OOOps - I have just 'refreshed' and found that this is all wrong to what has been found - I will just leave it up for a few minutes to check it out.

Dea x

Looks like ArgyllGran has cracked it. Well done! Correct occupation for John and living in Cameron Street in 1901.

Trying to find Mary in 1901 - what was her occupation on her marriage cert, Paul?


Just a maybe:

Mary Docherty
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: Mary Docherty
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire <<<<<<<<<<<
Registration Number: 282/2
Registration district: St Mary
Civil Parish: Liff and Benvie
County: Angus
Address: 23 Blachness Road
Occupation: Jute Preparer <<<<<<<<<<
ED: 15
Household schedule number: 100
LINE: 15
Roll: CSSCT1901_94
Household Members:
Name Age
Hanah Gallacher 47
Lizzie Reilly 15
Hanah Gallacher 9
George Gallacher 7
Mary Docherty 17
Maggie Quinn 16
Philip Martin 24

John in 1871 ???:



John Docharty
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: John Docharty
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relationship: Son
Father's name: Patrick Docharty
Mother's name: Helen Docharty
Gender: Male
Where born: K'tilloch, Dumbarton
Registration Number: 498
Registration district: Kirkintilloch
Civil Parish: Kirkintilloch
Town: Kirkintilloch
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: Cushatrye Close
Occupation: Iron Moulder <<<<<<<<<<<<<
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 154b
LINE: 20
Roll: CSSCT1871_87
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Docharty 46
Helen Docharty 44
Catherine Docharty 23
Michael Docharty 19
John Docharty 16
Bridget Docharty 10
Patrick Docharty 9

Don't know if this relevant:


John Docherty
in the UK, Military Deserters, 1812-1927
Name: John Docherty
Age: 26
Birth Year: Abt 1855
Birth Place: Kirkintilloch
Desertion Date: 25 Apr 1881
Desertion Place: Stirling
Publication Date: 13 May 1881
Regimental Number: 5529
Military Corps: Hghind. Bdrs.


EDIT:

No, it's not.

Here are John & Helen in 1881:


John Docherty
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: John Docherty
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Helen Docherty
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkintilloch
Registration Number: 644/8
Registration district: Milton
Civil Parish: Glasgow St George
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 58 Lyon Street Door 40
Occupation: Iron Worker
ED: 45
Household schedule number: 31
LINE: 1
Roll: cssct1881_233
Household Members:
Name Age
John Docherty 24
Helen Docherty 22
Helen Docherty 3 Mon

John Docherty
in the 1861 Scotland Census
Name: John Docherty
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relationship: Son
Father's name: Patrick Docherty
Mother's name: Helen Docherty
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkinch, Dumbarton
Registration Number: 498
Registration district: Kirkintilloch
Civil Parish: Kirkintilloch
Town: Kirkintilloch
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: High Street
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 71
LINE: 25
Roll: CSSCT1861_68
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Docherty 40
Helen Docherty 29
Michael Docherty 10
Catherine Docherty 14
John Docherty 7
Biddy Docherty 2