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I'm glad the birth cert has come John, good luck with hunting those Smiths ;-).

As mentioned my grandfather was from Grimsby, but his parents had moved there from Southend, ( fishermen and fish merchants), no Smiths in the family though!

A very Happy Christmas and all the best for 2018 to you also :-)

Hi Nyx. I received the birth cert today for Margaret Smith ( also known as Osborne) as I thought no father, mother Dorothy Margaret Smith, born 11 Jan 1917 Southend on Sea. So now I know for sure she was a Smith I can proceed down the Smith line . I will however let my friend know about the Osborne family because he thinks his mother in law was Margaret Osborne, well that's what she was registered as on her marriage certificate. I have found the correct Smiths and with help from a family tree on Ancestery so I can proceed down to the 1600's. Many many thanks for your help and all that's left to say is have a good Christmas and a happy healthy New Year x

I didn't think to look on the other thread, I can see now Frederick C Osborne stated as married but Alma was Single. She obviously got married after Clarence Frederick died in 1945. The children were born in Rochford, Clarence married Dorothy Smith in Rochford, so it must have been her who wouldn't get divorced, interesting. Thanks Nyx

Ruby and Rita ( twins) both registered as Clark and Osborne which indicates parents not married

Births Dec 1930 (>99%)
Clark Rita V Clark Rochford
Clark Ruby J Clark Rochford
Osborne Rita V Clark Rochford
Osborne Ruby J Clark Rochford

If you look at the other thread John we've got Alma beatrice on there

"Osborne Household (9 People)
130 Trafalgar Road , Portslade-by-Sea U.D., Sussex, England

Frederick C Osborne 24 Mar 1894 Male Agent Car Mechanic Married 124 1
Alma B Gosper (Osborne) 08 Dec 1908 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single 124 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Frederick (E) Osbourne 03 Jun 1927 Male At School Single 124 4
Ivy D Wren (Osborne) 17 May 1929 Female At School Single 124 5
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Rita V Greenfield (Osborne) 04 Nov 1930 Female At School Single 124 7
George M Osborne 02 May 1932 Male At School Single 124 8
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Alma Beatrice Osborne married Gosper 1951 , gives 9/12/ 1905 as birth so slightly different, but she seems to be the mother of the Osborne children if this one?

Births Mar 1906 (>99%)
Clark Alma Beatrice Lambeth 1d 388

"Alma beatrice Clark didn't marry Osborne as far as I can see, though the children are evidently hers , so may indicate he also wasn't free to marry."

Nyx. Just been looking at the trees on Ancestry and how people can get things so wrong is beyond me. One had put Frederick Harvey Osborne as the father of Clarence Frederick. Another had put him as having wife b 1905 Alma Beatrice Clarke , unable to find a marriage for these 2 but something has given me food for thought because I found the following Osborne births in Rochford with mother of Clarke. Alma M b 1926. Frederick E b 1927. Rita V. b 1930, & Ruby J b 1930 possible twins. George M. b 1932 Jean C b 1935. Bearing in mind again there is a marriage for Dorothy M Smith to Clarence F Osborne in Rochford 1919. I wonder did he leave Dorothy and went on to have this family

No John I live in Shropshire ( have moved around a lot!) I used to live in Longfield and worked locally for a while as a taxi can controller so know the places mentioned in Kent on census etc fairly well.

That is funny about John Lewis :-) closest I have come to that is when I was at the chemist some years ago before I moved here, picking up a prescription for my mum and was handed a huge bag of medication for same surname, same first initial but for the local midwife who by coincidence had been my visiting midwife also.

Hope you get the birth cert soon and that it is helpful!

Nyx.Is that where you live now, was it you born in Green St Green Kent or am I thinking of someone else. Have friends live in Bilton Grimsby, Well there are John Lewis 's everywhere a nightmare for me. Must tell you this, we were waiting in the John Lewis store Bluewater for an item ordered with our daughter , as we were sitting there the assistant called John Lewis and the man sitting next to me got up and went to collect his item, how uncanny was that. Down to our search for the Osbornes, I have looked up the family of Clarence F Osborne and they appear to come from Islington, so I think we have more or less come to a dead end, Still waiting for the birth cert for Margaret Smith, may get delayed because of Xmas post, so will let you know unless something comes up regarding Clarence Osborne, have looked on trees on Ancestry, found him but no mention of a marriage to Dorothy M Smith, have messaged the tree owner but received no reply. Thanks once more for spending so much time helping me. John

That's a pity John, even with my fairly uncommon surname I've found that there was another family in the same area ( Grimsby) that had no connection to mine, just to confuse things :-)

Hi Nyx. I received a reply from the Ancestry Member, he found no connection between the 2 Osbornes, he asked his Mum and he verified that the 2 witnesses were the brother and sister of his Nan. Well no further along, more or less can rule out no connection other than neighbours

Just spotted it was Emily Burnett married Jesse John Osbourne and he was born in Northfleet, oh dear my mind is going around in circles with these Osbournes. Osbornes , Orsbournes

Hello Nyx, I have been on Ancestry and found 2 people who have William Thomas Orsbourn as they called him and his wife Bertha Lilian Judges on their trees so have contacted them, hopefully something about the 2 Osbornes may come up. William Thomas & Bertha had 11 children 2 have been kept private so there may be a possibility they could be still alive so could remember something about them all living in Castle Lane Chalk Gravesend.. There was Frederick Osborne b Rye living in Northfleet,his occupation Carman, the same name of father and occ Carman stated on marriage cert for Margaret Osborne married 1934 daughter of Dorothy Margaret Osborne, but I found him married to an Emily, actually they got married at All Saints Church Perry St Northfleet ,which is my parish church not far from my home. Many thanks for doing all this work for me I really do appreciate it.

Hello John, I've not had that happen but plenty of people on here have mentioned that spouses or friends have found that they share the same ancestors.

I think I'm going to have to read back on both threads and try and do a tree on paper just to work out where everyone fits in, or not as the case may be. :-)

Hi Nyx. Looking at the findings of John Osbourne married to Emma Ann Stevens whose sons were William Thomas and Jesse John Osborne. Their mother Emma Ann Stevens rang a bell and low and behold I have found that my friend and his wife had the same great great grandparents, he is going to be shocked when I tell him. This has happened before for me, my son in law and our friend and neighbour across the road ex husband both shared great great grandparents and they never knew . I am still trying to find the connection of Clarence Frederick Osborne to William Thomas Osborne from Rye, that's if there is any and it's just a coincidence that Dorothy lived next door to them but no relation

Just double checked on marriage cert for Dorothy M Osborne to Don Small and her fathers name on there was Smith so the marriage of D M Smith to Clarence F Osborne is correct. Now to find the connection of these Gravesend Osbornes to Clarence F Osborne

I'll have another look at it all tomorrow John, have a look at dates of who was where and when lol. Good night for now, :-)

So I wonder who was the 1st husband of Dorothy Margaret Osborne perhaps it wasn't Clarence Frederick Osborne , I think by my friend saying the Osbornes lived over in Southend it has rather thrown a spanner in the works. On marriage cert for daughter Margaret in 1934 it states father as being Frederick, but Dorothy M Osborne and Donald Small were witnesses, so they were together approx 10 years before their marriage in 1944

Good luck with sorting them out John , I always find a big piece of paper helps , easier to see the connections. :-)

Yes Nyx. the name William is a nightmare, I was trying to find my grandad William John Lewis for 2 yrs, never met him because my Gran left him when my dad was a young boy, and he went back to Wales to live, can't find his death either. Wow wow you have cracked the Osborne family, this is the one. Edna L Coomber living at 4 Castle Lane Gravesend, and see there is a William j Osborne b 1912. On marriage cert for Dorothy M Osborne,states she lived at 2 Castle Lane Gravesend ,next door. Just can't thank you enough. Now I have to digest who is who regarding these Osbornes

This was the post from the other thread mentioning Jesse

"Chris Ho :) Report 3 Nov 2017 07:36
Reference 1922...

County Kent
Place Gravesend
Church name St George
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 2388
Marriage date 09 Sep 1922
Groom forename Frederick Thomas
Groom surname OSBORNE
Groom age 20
Groom condition bachelor
Groom abode 2 Church Alley
Groom occupation Carman
Bride forename Daisy
Bride surname SUMMERS
Bride age 20
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode 2 Church Alley
Groom father forename John
Groom father surname OSBORNE
Groom father occupation Carman
Bride father forename Edward
Bride father surname SUMMERS (DECEASED)
Bride father occupation Labourer
Witness Mary JESSOP
Witness E G SUMMERS
Register note Groom signed with x

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above link, if anything else relating there)

Chris :)

Edits

Birth
ORSBOURN, FREDERICK THOMAS (BURNETT)
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in STROOD Volume 02A Page 614


1911 (Find My Past)
Jesse John Osborne Head Married Male Labourer 36 1875 Kent Aylesford
Emily Osborne Wife Married Female - 37 1874 Kent Stansted
Jesse John Osborne Son Single Male - 14 1897 Kent Gravesend
Frederick Osborne Son - Male - 9 1902 Kent Northfleet
George Osborne Son - Male - 3 1908 Kent Northfleet
Albert Osborne Son - Male - 1 1910 Kent Northfleet
9 Brunswick Road Gravesend, Gravesend, Kent
Census reference RG14 PN3820 RG78 PN145 RD44 SD1 ED7 SN192


Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
Burnett Emily Strood 2a 1087
Orsbourne Jesse John C Strood 2a 1087