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Norah can be a diminutive form of Hanora.

If she married in C of E twice in England, maybe she was baptised Church of Ireland rather than as a Catholic? The baptisms posted seem to be from the Catholic registers, as they are available online.

Who were the witnesses to Mary Ann Ryan's marriage?Maybe that could help.

Was Church of Ireland common in Kilkenny area? Maybe she just followed each of her husband's denominations i.e. CofE?

The witnesses at the 1861 marriage of Ann Norah Ryan to John Holland Johnson were Mary Ann Ryan (as previously stated on this thread) and Daniel Sheen (though the S looks very like a J).

The below were found:

(in case of anything, both below have Father, Patrick Ryan. occ. Labourer) (but then probably a lot with those names!)

Mary Ryan
24 Nov 1862 John Muckla Christ Church, St Marylebone

Mary Ann Ryan 3 Mar 1872 John Wood Christ Church, St Marylebone


I was wondering the witnesses for these weddings. maybe that could help. could be Ann Norah Ryan's sister.

J.
Have you any Primary Source info. relating to Ann Norah Ryan and family eg MCs/Death/Birth etc. What does it give as address/occ.of John Holland Johnson /Ann Norah....
I would be looking at a Birth/Baptism for a "Honora" Ryan as opposed to Ann Norah .

Mary Ann Ryan could well be a sister but also a sister in law....

It's not easy to read. two characters then Marylebone…. possibly 52 Marylebone.

It's St Marylebone - just an area, not an actual address.




John Holland Johnson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: John Holland Johnson
Registration Year: 1842
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: St Giles
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1
Page: 68

According to a tree on Ancestry, his parents were Christopher and Elizabeth Johnson, and he had brothers Charles and Henry and a sister Mary Ann.

The tree gives Patrick as Anne Norah's father, but doesn't name her mother.

John Johnson
in the 1851 England Census
Name: John Johnson
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Father's name: Christopher Johnson
Mother's name: Elizth Johnson
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Giles in the Fields
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Queen Street, Seven Dials <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles South
ED, institution, or vessel: 01b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 322
Piece: 1508
Folio: 56
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Christopher Johnson 45
Elizth Johnson 40
Wm Johnson 16
Elizth Johnson 13
George Johnson 11
John Johnson 9
Mary Johnson 7
Charles Johnson 1


Christopher died 1864.

I don't see Elizabeth and family in 1861 - or later, for that matter.

Parent of John Holland Johnson… Christopher Johnson and Elizabeth Perry of 19 King Street?

Name: John Holland Johnson
Spouse: Anne Norah Ryan
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Jul 1861
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Christopher Johnson<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse Father: Patrick Ryan
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: John Holland Johnson
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Jan 1843
Father's name: Christopher Johnson<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's name: Ach Elizabeth Johnson<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Parish or Poor Law Union: Holborn St Giles in the Fields
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

EDIT: GRO confirms MMN as Perry

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
JOHNSON, JOHN HOLLAND PERRY
GRO Reference: 1842 S Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 68

Marriage of John Holland's parents:

Name: Christopher Johnson<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Ash Elizabeth Perry<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 May 1834
Parish: St Mary, Newington
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Register

Baptism of Miss Perry?

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Aytch Elizabeth Perry
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Oct 1811
Baptism Date: 28 Jun 1812
Baptism Place: Saint Nicholas,Colchester,Essex,England
Father: Simon Perry
Mother: Mary


Census says born Colchester c1811.

Not surprised she tended to go by Elizabeth.

So give or take 99% sure Christopher Johnson and Elizabeth Perry are parents to John Holland Johnson?

I would think so, given the maiden name Perry on the GRO record for John Holland Johnson's birth; but what the first name of his mother is, is anyone's guess. Ach, Ash, Aytch... no image for her baptism unfortunately.

Thank you so very much for your help.

That baptism you gave looks probable

Elizabeth in 1871:

Elizabeth Johnson
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Johnson
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Colchester, Essex, England
Civil Parish: St Giles in the Fields
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles, South
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 160
Piece: 343
Folio: 55
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Anderson 22
Mary Anderson 21
Mary Anderson 3
Elizabeth Johnson 60 - widow

And in 1861, with Christopher entered wrongly as Charles on the image.
They are one of several households at 14 Brownlow Street:

Elizabeth Johnson
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Johnson
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: 1811
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles Johnson
Gender: Female
Where born: Colchester, Essex, England
Civil Parish: St Giles
Ecclesiastical parish: London
Town: London
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 441
Piece: 168
Folio: 71
Page Number: 71
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Johnson 57
Elizabeth Johnson 50
Henry Johnson 9




JOHNSON, HENRY mms PERRY
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01B Page 309

Does Elizabeth Johnson appear in 1881? If not, that'll help me find her death.

First Name Elizabeth
Last Name Johnson
Gender Female
Year 1887
Birth Year 1812
Birth Month
Birth Day
District Kensington
County London
Country England
Volume 1A
Event Quarter 1
District Number
Page 94
Line Number 330
Entry Number


Thoughts?

I don't see her in 1881.

There's not a death at a suitable age in the St Giles reg district 1871-81, and I don't know the London area well enough to know what other districts might be possibilities.