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But I put the baptism up- which gives James Murphy's date of birth. If you wanted to order his birth certificate you have all the information to do it!

I feel a bit like I'm banging my head against wall on this!

Just in case it's of interest- the marriage of James' Parents:

Date of Marriage: 08-Aug-1883
Parish / District: COBH County: Co. Cork
Husband: John Murphy (Roches Row)
Wife: Catherine Higgins (Church Street)
Denomination: Roman Catholic Roman Catholic
Husband's Father: Daniel Murphy
Wife's Father: William Higgins
Husband's Mother: Ellen Neill
Wife's Mother: Mary Sullivan
Witness 1 : Denis Twomey
Witness 2: Catherine Higgins
Notes:
PRIEST: REV D KELLER
HUSBANDS PARENTS ARE FROM ROCHES ROW
WIFES PARENTS ARE FROM FANICK



Good luck with your search

There are several possibilities - but you'd have to buy the certs to know if any of them is the one you want:

James Murphy
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name: James Murphy
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1890
Registration district: Cork
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 5
Page: 63
FHL Film Number: 101063

[There are three births with the same volume and page number as above (5, 63) - may be three different births, or may be duplicate transcriptions.]

James Murphy
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name: James Murphy
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1890
Registration district: Cork
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 5
Page: 156
FHL Film Number: 101063


James Murphy
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name: James Murphy
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1890
Registration district: Cork
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 5
Page: 75
FHL Film Number: 101063

Can anyone find a birth record for James Murphy from Queenstown Ireland 24/6/1890 or 24/7/1890. Mothers name Higgins please.

This is the Baptism record for James Murphy:

Name: James Murphy
Date of Birth: 24-Jul-1890
Date of Baptism: 27-Jul-1890
Address: Roches Row Parish/District: COBH
Gender: Male County Co. Cork
Denomination: Roman Catholic
Father: John Murphy
Mother: Catherine Higgins
Informant 1: William Higgins
Informant 2: Mary E Higgins
-----------------------------------------------

His seaman record- looks like he lied about his age! Not uncommon :)
His occupation on enlistment was fisherman.
He served on the Conqueror 23 November 1912- October 1918.

UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1853-1928
Name: James Murphy
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 24 Jul 1887
Birth Place: Queenstown. Cork.
Service number: 309402
First Service Date: 19 Jan 1906
First Ship Served On: Vivid II
Last Service Date: 1 Mar 1919
Last Ship Served On: Hecla II

Naturalization record states date of birth for James as 24th July 1890 Queenstown
Ellen's date of birth is stated as 1st November 1886 Queenstown

Selected U.S. Naturalization Records
Name: James Murphy
Age: 38
Birth Date: 24 Jul 1890
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Children:
John 26 April 1917
Margaret 1st November 1920
Catherine 13 Noember 1921
Eleanore 3 February 1932

Naturalization Date: 7 Jun 1929
State: New York
Court Type: District Court
Court Location: Eastern District, New York
Naturalization Record Type: Petition for Naturalization

I don't think James Horan was married a few times- I just think Margaret's surname has been written or transcribed differently for each child's baptism- I assume they are all the same Margaret.

Is it James Murphy's birth certificate you are wanting to find or James Horan?

Thats really interesting news, as we did get given name Quills/Trimble and could not see the connection. But it looks like James been married a few times. The only information on James Murphy I have is that he was a leading Stoker, H.M.S Conquerer. Born June or July 24 1890. He joined the Navy age 14 and stayed for 14 years. He was in World War 1. Thank you for the information AustinQ. Wish I could find James Birth certificate.

Margaret and James had several children (some died young) on all the baptisms (apart from Ellen's) the transcrption gives mother's name as Tringle Tringles Singles and Trindals. The only way I can see of progressing is to buy the 1886 marriage certificate to see who Margaret's father is.

father on all James Horan

Name: Ellen Horan
Date of Birth: 01-Nov-1886
Date of Baptism: 07-Nov-1886
Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH
Mother: Margaret Quills

Name: Margaret Horan
Date of Birth: 01-Aug-1888
Date of Baptism: 02-Aug-1888
Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH
Mother: Margaret Tringle

Name: Patrick Horan (died 1897)
Date of Birth: 23-Jul-1890
Date of Baptism: 24-Jul-1890
Address: Queen St
Mother: Margaret Trindals

Name: James Horan (possible death 1892)
Date of Birth: 31-Oct-1891
Date of Baptism: 01-Nov-1891
Address: Old St. Parish/District: COBH
Mother: Margaret Singles

Name: Mary Horan
Date of Baptism: 11-Dec-1892
Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH
Mother: Margaret Tringles

Name: Daniel Horan (possible death 1896)
Date of Birth: 14-Nov-1894
Date of Baptism: 18-Nov-1894
Address: Harbour Terrace Parish/District: COBH
Mother: Margaret Tringles

Name: Christopher John Horan
Date of Birth: 07-Nov-1896
Date of Baptism: 08-Nov-1896
Address: Harbour Terrace Parish/District: COBH
Mother: Margaret Tringles

John Murphy son of Ellen Horan was born 3 days after she got married on the 23/4/1917.

We visited COBH Ireland to see where Margaret Horan lived and got the marriage certificate while we was there. Margaret Horan is the sister of Ellen and my husbands grandmother . Eileen Watkins nee Brice my mother in law is the daughter of Margaret Horan and she very little of her mothers family tree. Especially as they all moved to America. James Brice and Julia Coffee where witnesses to Margaret and Charles John Brice marriage July 18th 1909 COBH Parish.

Austin your information seems to be more accurate to what information we have accept the marriage certificate of Margaret Horan and Charles John Brice from COBH Parish states Margaret Horan's parents are James Horan and Margaret Trimble/Trunkles the person writing the certificate was not able to identify the surname correctly they put Trunkles but John son of Ellen states it is Trimble.

The only information I have is Ellen Horan's date of birth 1/11/1896 and James Murphy 24th of June or July 1890. They married in Cardiff on the 23/4/1917. John Murphy their son gave us this little information he had before he passed away in 2013. He lived in O'Fallon Mo 63366 Rosedale Drive America. Ellen is the sister of Margaret Brice Nee Horan of Queenstown Ireland. Thank you all for the information you have found so far. I don't have any certificates to go on.

It is possible that Mother Margaret was married before.

Although she would be very young, there is this marriage in 1875:

Name: Margaret Tringle
Date of Registration: 1875
Registration district: Cork, Ireland
Volume: 15
Page Number: 91
FHL Film Number: 101252
Records on Page:
Name
Catherine Conroy
Timothy Murray
Hannah Fitzgerald
Catherine Conroy
James Brenan
Margaret Trindle<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Margaret Tringle<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Denis O'Brien<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ellen Riordan
James Hurley
-----------------------------------------------------

and maybe the 1886 marriage is her listed twice?

Marriage
Name: James Horan
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, 1886
Registration district: Cork, Ireland
Volume: 5
Page Number: 122
FHL Film Number: 101255
Records on Page:
Name
James Horan
Kate Keane
Margaret Trindles<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Andrew Connell
Daniel O'Connor
John O'Brien
Margaret O'Brien<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Lizzie O'Callaghan
Ellen Murphy
-----------------------------------------

I think to further your tree you would need the 1886 marriage certificate to see who Margaret lists as her father. - The Tringle name seems to be transcribed in all sorts of ways- Trimble/ Trimbal/Tringle/ Trindle/ Trindal all with or without an s on the end.

The Baptism of Christopher John Horan is on Rootsireland- mother's surname is listed as unclear- Margaret Tringles.

On the Baptism of Ellen's sister, Margaret, mother's surname is listed as Tringle

It seems some of Ellen's siblings also travelled to US- have you got details on them?

Do their Birth certificates state mother as Quills or Trindles?

Christopher's birth:

First name(s) Christopher John
Last name Horan
Registration year 1896
Registered quarter/year Oct - Dec 1893
Registration district Cork
Volume 5
Page 158
Mother's last name (original) -
County Cork
Country Ireland
----------------------------------------

Do you have the marriage certificate for Ellen and James Murphy?

From what I can gather this is Ellen's 2nd marriage:

name(s) ELLEN LEAHY
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1917
Spouse: JAMES MURPHY
Spouse's last name MURPHY
District CARDIFF
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page 759
-----------------------------------------------------

They have children:

MURPHY CATHERINE M 1921 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
MURPHY CHRISTOPHER 1921 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
MURPHY JOHN J 1917 1917 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
MURPHY MARGARET M 1919 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
---------------------------------------------------------

Is this the family in US?

1940 United States Federal Census

Ireland James Murphy Head Married Male 49 1891
Eire Ellen Murphy Wife Married Female 53 1887
Wales John J Murphy Son Single Male 22 1918
Wales Margaret Murphy Daughter Single Female 19 1921
Wales Catherine Murphy Daughter Single Female 18 1922
New York Eleanor Murphy Daughter Single Female 8 1932

Street: East 94 Street
House Number: 1421
Inferred Residence in 1935: New York, Kings, New York
------------------------------------------------------

Death of Eleanor- showing Mum's maiden name:

Name: Eleanor Mary Murphy
[Eleanor Mary Sommers]
[Eleanor Sommers]
SSN: 072261329
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birth Date: 3 Feb 1932
Birth Place: Brooklyn Kin, New York
Death Date: 1 May 1993
Father: James Murphy
Mother: Ellen Horan
Type of Claim: Original SSN.
Notes: Jan 1950: Name listed as ELEANOR MARY MURPHY; Sep 1953: Name listed as ELEANOR MARY SOMMERS; 06 May 1993: Name listed as ELEANOR SOMMERS

So ten years out re DOB - and could therefore be the Ellen on the censuses.

Deborah, what actual records have you found to lead back to your Ellen?
What do you know to be fact?

We're in danger of becoming lost in a maze of guesswork.

OK, so this is where the DOB came from?:

Additional information,
Church Baptism Record
Name: Ellen Horan Date of Birth: 01-Nov-1886
Date of Baptism: 07-Nov-1886
Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH
Gender: Female County Co. Cork
Denomination: Roman Catholic
Father: James Horan Mother: Margaret Quills
Informant 1: John Dorney Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2: Mary Flynn
Notes:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1312050

Perhaps you mean surname Trindles?

Marriage
Name: James Horan
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, 1886
Registration district: Cork, Ireland
Volume: 5
Page Number: 122
FHL Film Number: 101255
Records on Page:
Name
James Horan
Kate Keane
Margaret Trindles<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Andrew Connell
Daniel O'Connor
John O'Brien
Margaret O'Brien
Lizzie O'Callaghan
Ellen Murphy
-------------------------------------------------

The family that Shirley put the 1901 & 1911 census for appear quite a few times in the criminal records on FMP. James Horan was accused of assaulting his wife 1901, Margaret Horan was accused of assaulting Ellen Leahy 1907.