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Looking at the marriage indexes Mary Kinnersley marries to Bryant under Mary and Mary W.

There is a later marriage 1964 Epping that could be for her. It looks like she had already been using her husband's surname as she is also listed under his name.

Search the birth indexes for Surname Janes- Mother's maiden name Kinnersley. There is a possible 1964 birth.

I can't give more details as this person is possibly living. If you have any problems please message me.

I have to go out now, but will have another look at this in the morning.

Had a chat with my partner and looks like we're finally getting somewhere!

It looks like:
Robert Kleeman (nee Bryant) is the son of Mary Kinnersley and Edward Bryant.
They were apparently living with Mary's parents for several years (Robert not on the electoral roll but no reason in early years to assume he wan't with his parents).
For some reason in the late 1950's Robert is left with his maternal grandmother (Winifred) and her new husband Herbert.
Robert would have had no memory of his maternal biological grandfather, as he died the year Robert was born, so probably regarded Herbert as his grandfather/father figure and I can only assume this was the reason for the name change later in life.
We know his mother Mary didn't die but I think she may have remarried as we are now of the understanding Robert may have later had several half siblings.

Thankyou so much everyone for your help - any further ideas much appreciated!

thanks so much for your help and advice - I'll try and pick this all apart when I get home and run it past my partner to see if anything sounds familiar!

It's all got a bit confusing so just to recap:

Winifred Mapp and George Kinnersley married in 1931 Brentford.

Winifred and George have two daughters- one of them being Mary Kinnersley born 1932 Willesden.

It's likely that their daughter Mary married Edward Bryant 1950 Willesden. They have son Robert. Mary and Edward live with Mary's Mum, Winifred until 1956.

Mary's father George died in 1951 and her Mum, Winifred, remarries in 1956 to Herbert Kleeman.

Winifred died in 1985 Brent Middlesex

It's also possible that Winifred was Robert's Grandmother:

Winifred and Husband George Kinnersley had a daughter, Mary in 1932- the likely mother of Robert.

I think it's possible that Robert's Mum, Mary, died , or that his parents separated, as there is another possible marriage for Edward in Willesden in 1958. May be this was why Winifred and Herbert fostered Robert?

The information re Winifred and Herbert- definitely related somewhere! So George Kinnersley dies in 1951- he and Winifred were living Twyford Abbey Road.- Look who is living with Winifred in 1953 (the parent's of Robert):

1953 Elecoral register
3 Abbey Farm Cottages, Twyford Abbey Road, Willesden, Roundwood
Edward Bryant
Mary Bryant
Winifred Kinnersley

a year later only Edward Bryant and Winifred Kinnersley are listed here then in 1956 just before Winifred married Mr Kleeman it looks like they are all listed together again.

By 1958 Winifred is living at the same address with Herbert Kleeman but the Bryants are no longer there.

I don't think he did it officially by Deed Poll. They are all in the Gazette and the only Kleeman (fortunately an easy name to search) is one in 1968 who changed his name to Kingsley.

It doesn't have to be done by Deed Poll. All you need to do is start using the new name - and this was much simpler before computers! :-)

Interesting the Robert born 1951 Willesden has mm Kinnersley- there is a Kinnersley/ Kleeman marriage in Willesden 1956:

Winnifred Kinnersley married Herbert Kleeman in 1956. She was born in 1907 and had been previously married to George V Kinnersley- but he died in 1951 Willesden.

I'm wondering if the foster parents were related to his birth parents?

Do you have the name of his foster/ adoptive father from his marriage?

Can you trace foster father on the London electoral register? Ancestry has them up to 1965.

If you are able to trace the foster family- there maybe living relatives that can help a little more?

Are you able to give any further details by private message which might help us.

Feel free to send me a pm if so...

Dea x

Are you sure he was born in London? There is a birth for the name Robert Bryant at the right time in Yorkshire. He has two possible siblings born in Woolwich.

Could he have been born in Yorkshire and then moved down to London and then decided to come back to his roots in Yorkshire after his marriage??

The two possible siblings who were born in Woolwich were born one before him and one afterwards so the parents must have moved from London to Yorkshire and then back again.

Kath. x

thanks for the suggestions everyone!

he was born in May 1951 - his son is my partner

the details of his birth family are rather sketchy - I understand (without too much detail on a public thread!) that there were some very difficult circumstances involved in him being taken in by the foster family, and I'm not sure whether they ultimately adopted him or not. Deed poll records are notoriously difficult for findings records of a change of name.
I believe he mentioned the name of his adopted/foster parents on his marriage certificate.
Unfortunately he never really spoke about what happened, even to his wife. I understand he did have siblings but not sure how many.
I'm sorry this is all so vague...

There is one with the correct name registered in Willesden which is part of London in the right Quarter of 1851 - don't like to post too many details in case it isn't the right one???

I have found the parents etc but unless we have some more details we can't be sure.

Did he give his father's name on the marriage cert please? - Was it Edward A ??

Dea x

OOOpps !! - Shirley has already posted the full details........
- I haven't found deaths for these people yet Shirley and they might not be connected ??

Dea x

This looks like the most likely and would fit with his birth date

Births Jun 1951
Bryant Robert Kinnersley Willesden 5f 415

Willesden and Ealing are about 6 miles apart

Parents married in 1950 and he seems to be an only child

His mother

Births Dec 1932
Kinnersley Mary Mapp. Willesden 3a 448

Interestingly their daughter was born Ealing reg district !!

Looks like his widow remarried in 1999

She is on the electoral rolls with her husband and her son Paul

Plus is on the electoral rolls with her son and daughter

The daughter married in 2002

Obviously won't post the info as its an invasion of their privacy but you can look for the info

Wouldn't the family have some knowledge of his background . Can't think that he didn't talk about his family to them and about his upbringing

Do you have the actual certs though

Wouldn't his wife have some knowledge of his background ?

Who does he name as his father on his marrige cert

It's not usual for a foster family to change a child's surname

You probably need to purchase all 3 certificates.

Although technically the fathers name ( if Bryant mmn Bryant) on the MC should have been blank, he might have named his foster father. Witness names are always useful as is his address at the time. You could track down historical ER and see who is also listed at the address.

Have you checked to see if he had any children with Doe, or are you one of them?
How about relatives of his widow? They may remember being told a bit about his background.

thankyou for your help...that's pretty much all the information I have at the moment...searching being made more difficult by him having changed his surname to Kleeman at some point...so tracing either his Foster or birth family is proving very challenging!

Kind regards, Jen