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Hi, I am having trouble locating birth along with everything else regarding Susan James born c 1855. Surname yet unknown! (Is it James or Allen or something else??)

In 1881 Census (RG11, piece120) she is living at 24, Montpelier Street, St. George, Hanover Square.
She states she is born in Battersea, London in 1856.
With her is mother/mother in law is Maria Allen (Married?), (B. Edinburgh, 1826), a Lodging House Landlady, and daughter Susan James aged 4 yrs (1877 b Brompton, London).

1891 Census (RG12, piece1037) now at Cunningham Street, Acton, Brentford, Middlesex.
Now saying born in Chelsea, Middlesex!
Maria Allen (Widow) born Scotland 1822, dau Susan b1877, Brompton, Middlesex and another daughter Rose b1881, also Brompton.

1901 Census (RG13, Piece1204) 34, Cunningham Street, Acton, Brentford, Middlesex.
Maria Allen b1820, Scotland,
Susan James, b 1857, Chelmsford, Essex !!!!
Rose James, b1883, Brompton, Beatrice, b 1891 Battersea
Plus a few others..

Sorry to be long winded, but can any one help me with this one?

Birth for Susan James (Allen ?) 1877
Birth for Susan James (Allen ?) 1855
Husband of Susah James/Allen
Husband for Maria Allen b Scotland

And anyone else if possible!

Thanks in advance.......

Hello Marcus, how do you know Maria Allen is a relative? The 1881 census says Susan James is the servant ...

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
24, Montpelier Street, St Margaret and St John the Evangelist Westminster, St George Hanover Square, London, England

Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Maria Allen Landlady Married Female 55 1826 Lodging House Keeper Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Susan James Servant Head Married Female 25 1856 Domestic Serv Middlesex, England
Susan James Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Middlesex, England

EDIT: Ignore question! I see she is described as daughter on the later census.

In both 1891 & 1901 Susan is recorded as Daughter.

In 1901 Susan is also shown as a Widow.

On the 1911 census Susan is with daughter Rose and Rose's husband Richard Crocker & family.

Rose's marriage certificate may give details of her father (if she knew who he was).

Here's that marriage:

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: James Richard Crocker - horsekeeper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Age: 24
Spouse: Rose James
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Mar 1907
Parish: St Clement, Notting Hill
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: James Fossell Crocker - carpenter
Spouse Father: James James - Deceased <<<<
Register Type: Parish Register

Neither previously married. Address for both looks like 6 Blechynden Street. Witnesses James F Crocker and Henry? Gowing?

Possible birth for the young Susan:-

First name(s) SUSAN
Last name JAMES
Birth year 1877
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ST. GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE
County London
Country England
Volume 1A
Page 458

In 1855 it was not compulsory to register a birth so there may not be a birth for Susan James/Allen. If you think the birth I posted above may be her daughter then the birth certificate should give Sarah's maiden name (if she was married).

Kath. x

Maria in 1851?
Unmarried kitchen maid in household of Lord Frederick Fitz Clarence.


Maria Allen
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Maria Allen
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Midlothian (Edinburgh), Scotland
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Portsmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Portsea Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 04
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 1658
Folio: 587
Page Number: 16

Marcus, how have you got back to Susan? There are two Susan James's in Middlesex in 1881, both living in St George Hanover Sq, with an older Susan. This is the other one:


Name:Susan James
Age:4
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1877
Relationship to Head:Visitor
Gender:Female
Where born:Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:St John the Evangelist
County/Island:London
Country:England
Street address:143 Regency St
Registration district:St George Hanover Square

Frederick James 31
Susan James 30
Agnes E. James
Henry James 14
Susan James 4
Lydia Howitt 29
Gertrude Clark 20

Edit: There are 3 Susan James b1877 in the 1881 in the same area; the 3rd one has father Thomas and mother Susan.

Maybe Maria in 1841?

Maria Allen
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Maria Allen
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Kirkharle
Hundred: Tindale (North East Division)
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Bellingham
Sub-registration district: Kirkwhelpington
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 841
Book: 21
Folio: 3
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Allen 35 - born Northumberland
Jane Allen 20 - Scotland
Maria Allen 15 - Scotland

Two possibilities for Jane Allen's birth:

23/07/1820 ALLAN JANE
WILLIAM ALLAN/MARY EDINGTON
FR372 (FR372) F CRANSTON /MIDLOTHIAN 680/00 0020 0008


25/03/1821 ALLAN JANE THOMAS ALLAN/MARY ROBERTSON
FR6751 (FR6751) F CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0260 0057



The second one is possibly correct, as there's also this birth of a Mary (Maria ??):

20/12/1824 ALLAN MARY
THOMAS ALLAN/MARY ROBERTSON
FR6853 (FR6853) F CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0260 0261

My trail back to Susan James & Maria Allen :-

Elsie Ida Crocker b1910, Acton, Middlesex
Parents - James Richard Crocker & Rose James

James & Rose married in Kensington in March quarter 1907

Rose James born c 1881 Brompton, London
Here parents - (as on above 1881 & 1891 census)
Susan James b 1855/6 Chelsea or Chelmsford?

Just realised, Maria Allen is married in 1881, but widowed on 1891 & 1901 Census.

No mention of Husband though.

COPY PRINT SOURCE BOX SHARE
Attach to Family Tree
Susan James
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name Susan James
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place St Margaret And St John The Evangelist Westminster, London,Middlesex, England
Registration District St George Hanover Square
Residence Note Montpelier St
Gender Female
Age 25
Marital Status (Original) Married
Occupation Domestic Serv
Relationship to Head of Household Servant Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1856
Birthplace London Battersea, London, Middlesex, England
Page Number 15
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 120/64
Affiliate Record Type Household
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Jasper Henry Kemmis Boarder Head M 25 Dublin, Ireland
Amy Kemmis Boarder F 23 Plymouth, Devon, England
Mary Ayres Mott Boarder F 19 Ely, Cambridgeshire, England
Maria Allen Landlady F 55 Edinburgh, Scotland
Susan James Servant Head F 25 London Battersea, London, Middlesex, England
Susan James Daughter F 4 London Brompton, London, Middlesex, England

Re Maria:
Stating "married" or "widowed" may just be for respectability if she had children outside marriage.

A possibility, maybe.

But if Maria had children out of wedlock, surely any children would have her surname of Allen, not James?

I cannot find her birth under either surname of Allen or James.

True!

Can't see her in 1871, under either name.

Okay, thanks everyone.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
York Street, Chelsea, London, England

Maria Allen Head - Female 40 1831 (unmarried) Housekeeper- Edinboro Scotland
William Allen Nephew - Male 19 1852 - London, Middlesex,
William Merrick Boarder - Male 14 1857 - Herefordshire, England
William Martin Lodger - Male 34 1837 - Devon, England
Christian Zinner Lodger - Male 30 1841 - Germany
Elizabeth James Servant - Female 15 1856 - Middlesex, England *

*Interesting that the servant has the surname James- and born in 1856??

In 1891 Susan and Maria are living at 11 Cunnington Street (not Cunningham Street as stated in your opening post), so this looks to be young Susan's marriage (although I suspect the father's name could be made up!):

Name: Susan James
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Age: 21
Spouse: James Paxton
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 9 Jan 1898
Parish: St Alban, Acton Green
Borough: Ealing
Father Name: William James
Spouse Father: John Paxton
Register Type: Parish Register

Both living at 11 Cunnington Street
Witnesses: W. Paxton & ?. Joyce