Find Ancestors

Thanks again to all of you for your help. I am sorry I keep disappearing but what with inlaws and visitors i can only make short trips to the computer.

When Mary Ann and Thomas Mack Pearce in 1905 they were both resident at 37 Gurynne Rd, Battersea.The road name is my best stab at reading what is on the cert!

The Mary Ann Gibbs records look hopeful.

Mavis, thanks for the school records. I note Mary Ann (1882) lived at 19 Abercombie St when at Latchmere school in 1892 and was previously at Basnett Rd School. And in 1893 when at Mantua School she lived at 4 Befield st.

None of these roads match any of the other addresses we have.


Arrrggggggghhh!

Gerry :-)


:-D :-D

This looks to be Ernest's baptism

Name: Ernest Payne
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 May 1890
Father's name: Henry Payne occ Carpenter
Mother's name: Mary Ann Payne
Abode: 25 Heath Rd
Parish or Poor Law Union: Clapham St Paul
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Registers

It does look as if Mary Ann and Henry didn't marry, no matter which Mary Ann is correct - Andrew's London one, or Mavis's Scottish one.

No sign of a marriage in either Scotland or England/Wales.

Posting this as a follow to the 1891 I did right at the top of the thread....

1881

Name:Mary A. Gibbs
Age:16
Estimated birth year:abt 1865
Relationship to Head:Servant
Gender:Female
Where born:London Westminster Rd, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Putney
County/Island:London
Country:England
Street address:Vine Cott
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation:Dom Serv
Registration district:Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel:3
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:661
Folio:55
Page Number:6
Household Members:
Name
Age


Edmund Wilson 29
Ellen Wilson 27
>>>> Mary A. Gibbs 16
Thomas Howe 17
Frederick Yarwood 16


This could be her birth

Births Sep 1864 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GIBBS Mary Ann St Geo Han Sq 1a 225


In this scenario, her daughter would be illegitimate and no marriage to Henry Payne took place.

Andy

found Mary Ann Payne school records

at Latchmere School

Dob 28-7-82 Mary ann Payne father Henry

arrived at Mantua st school 30-10=93
Dob 28 -6-1883 Mary Ann Payne father Henry

Mavis

This would be the nearest vaguely possible birth, per ScotlandsPeople:

1857 GIBB MARY ANN F GREENOCK NEW OR MIDDLE /RENFREW 564/01 0414

And 1881 ??? (Although born Edinburgh on image, and 1911 says Glasgow.)

Mary Ann Gibbs
in the 1881 England Census

Name: Mary Ann Gibbs - unmarried
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Patient
Gender: Female
Where born: Midlothian, Scotland
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: "Workhouse Infirmary"
Occupation: Laundress <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: Workhouse Infirmary
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 599
Folio: 116
Page Number: 5

If Mavis's 1911 record is the correct couple, this looks like Mary Ann (senior) in 1871:

Mary Ann Gibbs
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Mary Ann Gibbs
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Battersea
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: Wandsworth and Clapham Union Workhouse
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 707
Folio: 190
Page Number: 9



EDIT: Must admit, there are also possibles in various places in Scotland 1871.

this is the family in 1891

24 Warsill Street, Battersea

Henry W Payne 38y 1853 Carpenter London
Mary A Payne 32y 1859 Scotland
Isabella Payne 3y Battersea -- born June Q 1888
Ernest Payne1 y

still no Mary Ann ????????????

not found them 1901

I wondered if Mary Ann 1882 was their child -- surpose to have married
about 1883 --28y in 1911 -- always a chance that Mary Ann was already
married so not able to --- but living next door to each other in 1911 goes a long
way to saying they are related

Does Mary Ann give an address on her Marriage ??

Mavis

?????????????



Jessie Elizabeth Swift

mentioned in the record of Samuel Ernest Willis and Jessie Elizabeth Swift

Name Samuel Ernest Willis
Spouse's Name Jessie Elizabeth Swift
Event Date 08 Jul 1866
Event Place Lambeth, Surrey, England
Father's Name Samuel Ernest Willis
Spouse's Father's Name William Swift

Hi Londonbelle and Mavis

The witnesses were Henry Payne and Jessie Swift. No idea who Jessie was

I agree Mavis, the 1881 crowd are not the right ones. I spent ages last night/early morning trying to get a handle on the children and Mary Ann and came to the conclusion she didn't fit in!!

However the 1911 couple are a good match, especially as they live next door to married daughter. Thank you.

I will also now start searching for previous census and marriage

Just checked Scottish marriages but no luck there

Gerry :-)





:-D :-D :-D :-) :-D :-)

more than likely Henry and Mary Ann Payne 1911

Address
17 Lydden Grove

Civil Parish
Wandsworth

Sub District
Sprinfield

Registration District
Wandsworth

Image Reference
RG14 - PN2377 RD26 SD6 ED8 SN105



Henry Payne 60 1851 Male Head Married born Westminster Carpenter
Mary Ann Payne 55 1856 Female Wife Married 28y 7 children 3 alive 4 died born Glascow



Thomas and Mary Ann Pearce are living at 19 Lydden grove

Not found Henry and Mary Ann Payne/Paine 1901 and 1891 as of yet

disregard the family I found 1881

Mavis

Do you have the 1905 Marriage Cert? Who were the Witnesses to the Marriage?

The Family are not at 27 Orkney Street in the 1881 census.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I am very tempted by Mavis' contribution. The question is though, where was Mary Ann in 1891 if this is the right family?

Was she the Mary Payne, pauper in Mike's 1891 contribution? A good chance. I am going to have to get one or more certs of the possible siblings and see if they match

BTW. I never thought to try under "Paine"!!

Gerry :-)

May be the Paine/Payne family 1881


Census Transcript Household London [Geographically Surrey] 1881


Address
135 Lavender Road

Parish
Battersea

Registration District
Wandsworth

Image Reference
RG11/0642/~F112

Henry Paine 44 1837 Head Broadwater, Sussex Carpenter [Brighton]
Mary Paine 40 1841 Wife Northam, Sussex [Northiam]
Thomas Paine 19 1862 Son Brighton, Sussex Laborer Starch Factory
George Paine 14 1867 Son Battersea, Surrey Errand Boy
Louisa Paine 10 1871 Daughter Battersea, Surrey Scholar
Edward Paine 5 1876 Son Battersea, Surrey Scholar
James Paine 3 1878 Son Battersea, Surrey
Ellen Paine 1 1880 Daughter Battersea, Surrey

!891 22 Wayford St - Battersea

Henry Paine Wid. 50y Carpenter Broadwater Sussex
Edward Paine 15y Battersea
James Paine 13y Battersea

Mavis

Malyon

Gerry said he had the birth certificate ..............

and Wandsworth is the Registration District that includes Battersea, so it looks as though the one you have posted is the one that Gerry already has, not an alternate

Births Sep 1882
Payne Mary Ann Wandsworth 1d 693

These are such common names and there are multiple possibles for them in census and marriage records.

Andy

birth
Name:
Mary Ann Payne

Registration Year:1881
Registration Quarter:Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district:Croydon

------------------------------------

Do you know if she has siblings ?


Perhaps....

1891 - North Surrey District Schools

Name:
Mary Payne

Age:8
Estimated birth year:abt 1883

Relation:
Pauper Inmate (Pauper)

Where born:Wandsworth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish:Penge
Ecclesiastical parish:St Pauls
Town:Penge
County/Island:London


Mary Payne 8
Elizabeth Payne 9
Harry Payne 6