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Help needed to find marriage banns for a John Dunbar born 1892 who married Elizabeth Horace in Liverpool January 1915.

Marriages Mar 1915 (>99%)
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Dunbar John Horace Liverpool 8b 133

Horace Elizabeth Dunbar Liverpool 8b 133.


If any banns were read they will be in the parish registers if they married in a church. If a civil marriage took place then there wont be any banns.

John Dunbar
mentioned in the record of Horace and John Dunbar
Name John Dunbar
Event Type Marriage
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1915
Registration District Liverpool
County Lancashire
Event Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911) Horace
Volume 8B
Page 133
Line Number 141

John Dunbar probably married one of the following people
Name Elizabeth Horace

Rosezina, what are you hoping to find from the banns that wouldn't be available from the marriage record?

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At
DUNBAR John HORACE Elizabeth Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool

So they either married at the Register Office in which case the 'Banns' would be a piece of paper pinned to a wall, or at non CofE venue.

Unless you know otherwise, there's a good chance it was a quick decision to marry before he was conscripted, with a strong possibility it was at a Register Office

Thanks for all the searches. I was hoping to find witnesses and his address on the marriage banns"
Detective" may be right, he joined the navy in July 1915 so they must have married in a registry office. It was the naval records that led me to his wife's name. "John Dunbar & E. Horace in clasped hands" under distinguishing marks, which was obviously a tattoo. He "run" 2 months later, it's amazing what info you find on service records!

No idea what are on RC and other non-conformist Banns, but on CoE ones, it will only give the parish they are from.

Register Office ones would give declared addresses (which could be the same for both) but neither Church nor Reg Office ones would give the names of witnesses as its only a declared intention to marry at that stage. You'd have to buy the MC to find out who the witnesses were.

As you've found the marriage from the Naval records, were you trying to find out about Elizabeth Horace? Its all good fun, itsn't it? ;-)

After 1898, non-conformists could apply to be authorized to keep official marr registers. The RCs chose not to apply until 1980-ish, so a registrar would have to attend an RC marr so they could sign his official register.
By 1915, the RCs were pretty much the only ones still proceeding in this way, but although RCs weren't authorized to keep official marr rego's, there was nothing to stop them keeping their own unofficial parish marr rego's.
However, a search of Ancestry's "Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1921" collection gets no hits for John Dunbar (nor any Latinized form of his forename).

???

Ancestry's transcription includes a neighbouring family called Kerwin in the transcription. I've taken them out, as they're a different household, at 25a.

Elizabeth Horace
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Daughter Elizabeth Horace
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Liverpool, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 25b Newsham Street Liverpool
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: Liverpool
Registration District Number: 453
Sub-registration district: Scotland
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 22120
Household Members:
Name Age
Augustine Horace 44 - widower, dock labourer
Elizabeth Horace 20 - daughter

Augustine Horace
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Augustine Horace
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3408
Folio: 151
Page Number: 50
Household schedule number: 320
Household Members:
Name Age
Augustine Horace 33 - widower, dock labourer
Elizabeth Horace 11

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Horace Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 61


EDIT:
Maybe not - there's an Elizabeth Horace born 1890, Liverpool, in 1891 census, with parents Richard and Ellen.

Can't see Augustine definitively in 1891.


Marriages Mar 1890 (>99%)
Horace Augustine Liverpool 8b 211
Kelly Catherine Liverpool 8b 211
MacNamara James Liverpool 8b 211
Osborn Norah Liverpool 8b 211

EDIT:
Going by 1911 census, James married Catherine (married 21 years in 1911), so presumably Augustin married Norah.

????
Deaths Jun 1895 (>99%)
Horace Norah 25 W. Derby 8b 217




Augustin Horace
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Augustin Horace
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: Cornelius Horace
Mother: Mary Horace
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 145 Back Portland St
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3597
Folio: 73
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Cornelius Horace 49
Mary Horace 46
Joseph Horace 22
Richard Horace 19
Augustin Horace 13
Mary Ann Horace 6
Patrick Horace 9

Here is family 1891. Ancestry have taken the surname from the entry above!! Correction submitted


Name:Agustin Hauritch
Age:23
Estimated birth year:abt 1868
Relation:Head
Spouse's Name:Norah Hauritch
Father's name:Cornelius Hauritch
Mother's name:Mary Hauritch
Gender:Male
Where born:Liverpool
Civil Parish:Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish:St Alban
Town:Liverpool
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district:Liverpool
Sub registration district:St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel:17
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece2901
Folio:38
Page Number:26
Household Members:
Name
Age


Agustin Hauritch 23 Dock porter
Norah Hauritch 22
Elizabeth Hauritch 7/12
Cornelius Hauritch 60 Father (to Augustin)Born Ireland
Mary Hauritch 58 Mother Born Ireland
Patrick Hauritch 19 Brother Born Liverpool
Mary A Hauritch 16 Sister

Andy

1871


Name:Augustin Horace
Age:2
Estimated birth year:abt 1869
Relation:Son
Father's name:Cornelius Horace
Mother's name:Mary Horace
Gender:Male
Where born:Liverpool, Ireland
Civil Parish:Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish:St Bartholomew
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Registration district:Liverpool
Sub-registration district:Howard Street
ED, institution, or vessel:9
Household schedule number:163
Piece:3768
Folio:49
Page Number:32
Household Members:
Name
Age


Cornelius Horace 38
Mary Horace 38
Joseph Horace 11
Richard Horace 8
Augustin Horace 2

Andy

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906


Name:Augustinns Horris
Baptism Date:10 Jun 1869
Parish:St Anthony's, Lancashire, England
Father's name:Comelis Horris
Mother's name:Maria Molony

This would be Elizabeth


Name:
Elizabetha Horice

Birth Date:12 Aug 1890
Baptism Date:23 Aug 1890
Parish:St Brigid, Lancashire, England
Father's name:Augustini Horice
Mother's name:Hanora Osborne



Andy

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)
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HORIS Cornelius Liverpool 8b 604
MALONEY Mary Liverpool 8b 604


Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1921


Name:
Carnelius Horis
Marriage Date:27 Sep 1853
Parish:St Mary Highfield Street, Lancashire, England
Spouse's Name: Mary Maloney
Father's name:Owen
Spouse Father's Name:Michael


Andy

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1889

HORRIS Augustine ROONEY Elizabeth Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/203/46


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1890

HORACE Augustine OSBORN Norah Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/205/26

(above are from below, if relating)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Chris :)

Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1921



Name:Noram Osborne
Marriage Date:27 Jan 1890
Parish:St Brigid, Lancashire, England
Spouse's Name: Augustinum Horice
Father's name:Patricii Osborne
Spouse Father's Name:Ocrnelii Horice

Andy

A big thank you for all the searches! a lot of information to work through. The address on the 1911 census for Elizabeth Horace has the address Newsham Street, I think this address was John Dunbar's home address on his naval record. Now I need to know what happened to John after he deserted the navy in July 1915. It's definitely great fun!

Do you have any other details for John Dundar? Age or date of birth, parents etc. Might help to find more info for him.

Andy