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I wonder if anyone can help me
Aaron hall had a greengrocers shop in Rhodeswell street london which is
E14 - 4F 61 in 1861.

I am trying to find out when he got the shop or started the business
in fact any information at all ,

I would greatly appreciate any help at all
Thanks you

Elizabeth rainbird

I can only find him in the 1861 census Elizabeth.

So we can pick him up on the census, when and were was he born please?
Are there any other people in the household?

If you've accessed the record, would it be possible to copy and paste the transcription?

Not sure what 4F 61 means - is that a London A-Z map reference?

I presume that this is the Aaron Hall in question

It would have been a great help to have had this posted .............

1861 Census

Name: Aaron Hall
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A Hall
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Limehouse St Anne
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Limehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Household schedule number: 60
Piece: 286
Folio: 92
Page Number: 10

Aaron Hall 37 Greengrocer
Mary A Hall 37 b.ca 1824, Battersea, Surrey
Margarena Hall 11 b.ca 1850, Battersea
Margaret Hall 7 b.ca 18554, Limehouse, Middlesex
Jane Hull 16 b.ca 1845, Battersea, Lodger, Domestic Servant

Address:- 4 Henry Street

If this is the baptism of Margaret born ca 1854, then Aaron obtained the greengrocer's shop sometime after 1854 .............

London, England, Births & Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Margaret Ann Hall
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1854
Father's name: Aaron Hall
Mother's name: Mary Ann Hall
Parish or Poor Law Union: Battersea St Mary
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers


from image:-

Born:- January 2 1854
Address:- Limehouse
Father occupation:- Labourer

this si the same baptism from England, Select Births and Baptisms ........ no image is available to check

Name: Margaret Ann Hall
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 2 Jan 1854
Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1854
Baptism Place: Saint Mary,Battersea,London,England
Father: Aaron Hall
Mother: Mary Ann
FHL Film Number: 0254530-0254537

A Public Family Tree on ancestry says that the Aaron Hall from the 1861 Census died in 1870.

This looks to be his widow Mary and daughter Margaret in 1871 ...............

1871 Census

Name: Mary Hall
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Battersea, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: St Anne Limehouse
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Limehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 5
Piece: 549
Folio: 107
Page Number: 1

Mary Hall 47 Widow, Greengrocer
Margaret Hall 17 b.ca 1854, Limehouse, Middlesex

Address:- 12 Edwards Street

There is a daughter on the 1861 Census called Margarena

I wonder if she was actually called Mary Ann??

This could then be her baptism ............

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Mary Ann Hall
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 Jul 1849
Father's name: Aaron Hall
Mother's name: Mary Ann Hall
Parish or Poor Law Union: Battersea St Mary
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers

From image..........

Born:- June 10
Address:- Battersea
Father occupation:- Labourer


This Mary Ann appears to have married in February 1871............

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Mary Ann Hall
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Age: 21
Spouse: William Inch
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 Feb 1871
Parish: St Anne, Limehouse
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Aaron Hall
Spouse Father: Thomas Alfred Inch
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Mary Ann
age:- 21
Spinster
Address:- Edward Street
Father occupation:- Galvanizer

Witnesses:- Thomas Alfred Inch and Margaret Hall


Father occupation is different though

???????? two more children???

No images available to check address and occupation


England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Aaron Hall
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 2 Oct 1851
Baptism Date: 9 Nov 1851
Baptism Place: Saint Mary,Battersea,London,England
Father: Aaron Hall
Mother: Mary Ann
FHL Film Number: 0254530-0254537


This one seems to have died .............

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980

Name: Aaron Hall
Record Type: Burial
Age: 10 Months
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Death Date: abt 1852
Burial Date: 13 Aug 1852
Burial Place: St Mary, Battersea, England
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Mary, Battersea
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Register



There is another Aaron baptised in 1856 ...............

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Aaron Hall
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 5 Apr 1856
Baptism Date: 25 May 1856
Baptism Place: Saint Mary,Battersea,London,England
Father: Aaron Hall
Mother: Mary Ann
FHL Film Number: 0254530-0254537

???????????????? Aaron and Mary Ann's marriage?????????

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Aaron Hall
Spouse: Mary Ann Richardson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 May 1847
Parish: St Leonard, Shoreditch
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: John Hall
Spouse Father: Benjn Richardson
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Aaron
Bachelor
of full age
Occupation:- Glove (??) Maker
Address:- Collingwood Street
Father occupation:- (can't read)

Mary Ann
Spinster
Of Full Age
Occupation:- (can't read)
Address:- Collingwood Street
Father occupation: Gardener

Two witnesses .......... can't read their names

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/records_office/thread/1231192

(somebody had above, looks to relate, Daughter/John Yallop?)


alviegal Report 21 Jul 2010 20:51

1881 census transcription details for: 58, St Anns Rd, Mile End Old Town
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11 Piece: 486 Folio: 51 Page: 26

Reg. District: Mile End Old Town Sub District: Mile End Old Town Eastern
Parish: Mile End Old Town Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 58, St Anns Rd, Mile End Old Town
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
YALLOP, John Head Married M 26 1855 Paliase Maker
Hackney
Middlesex
YALLOP, Margaret Wife Married F 27 1854
Limehouse
Middlesex
YALLOP, Margaret Daughter Single F 4 1877
Limehouse
Middlesex
YALLOP, John Son Single M 2 1879
Limehouse
Middlesex
YALLOP, Mary A Daughter Single F 0 1881
Limehouse
Middlesex



Ann** Report 21 Jul 2010 20:41

1911 census - household transcription
Person: YALLOP, Louisa
Address: 59 Ropemakers Fields Limehouse

YALLOP, Marget Head Widow F 58 1853 Limehouse
YALLOP, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 25 1886 Peel Boiler Stepney
YALLOP, Ellen Daughter Single F 21 1890 Tailoress Stepney
YALLOP, Louisa Daughter Single F 14 1897 Tailoress Mile End
WALLER, Alice Boarder Single F 22 1889 Confectionery Packer Bethnal Green

Chris :)


London, Docklands and East End Baptisms, 1558-1933 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) MARGARET ANN HALL
Last name YALLOP
Birth year 1876
Birth date 20 December 1876
Baptism year 1877
Baptism date 22 Apr 1877
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Margaret Ann
Father's occupation Upholsterer
Address 10 Kirk Terrace, Rhodeswell Rd
Parish St Anne, Limehouse
Church address Commercial Road
County London
Archive reference X069/002



Births Dec 1878 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
YALLOP John Hall Stepney 1c 486



Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Edgecombe William Stepney 1c 669
YALLOP Margaret Ann H Stepney 1c 669


edits (Marriage posted by Sylvia above, Aaron occ. Zinc Worker perhaps)

Wow you guys are fantastic, all the information you have supplied is true
thank you all so much for that.

I am trying to find out about the greengrocers shop , when they got it and if it was after the death of his father John hall who I think died between 1854 and 1861
as he does not appear on the 1861 census. John Hall was a beer seller who lived at the red House in Battersea, he also occupied a lot of land there.

Elizabeth

To answer some of your questions Aaron was born in 1826 in Westminster Middlesex
He married Mary Ann Richardson on 23 may 1847 they had 3 daughters Mary Ann, Margarene and margaret He died in 1870
4F-61 is part of a London Map.
hank you all

Elizabethj

His main work seems to have been Zinc Worker, also on Baptism of Aaron, 1856. Not sure he had his own greengrocery business, probably took that for work at the time...(sometimes on Census, by occ. it says own account, or a/c)

Did you find a Marriage for John Yallop?, seemed to be a problem...

Chris :)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/records_office/thread/1232919

(another relates)


http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs1848/London1848H.shtml

(John Hall, Beer Retailer, Battersea Marsh)


http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t18450818-1767

(18th August 1845)

thatg is fantastic Chris where on earth did you find the court link.
I cannot find a marriage for John yallop anywhere

We know John hall was live in 1854 but no sign of him on the 1861 census
His son Aaron had the greengrocers in the 186t1 census and aftte he died in 1870 his widow continued with it

We are wondering if he inherited the money from his father John

I see he was alive in 1848 so that narrows it down. I would love to find his will but need a date of death and john hall is a common name

Thank you so much for all the help I could n'tt do it without you.



Elizabeth

1841 (Find My Past)
John Hall Male 50 1791 Surrey, England (Cowkeeper)
Lousia Hall Female 50 1791
John Hall 15
Aaron Hall 14
Alfred Hall 12
Jessey Hall 7
Red House Tavern
Parish or township Battersea
County Surrey
Registration district Wandsworth & Clapham
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1046
Book number 4


(Publican of Red House above, was a Charles Wright)

http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs1842/1842R.shtml

(Red House, Wright Chas. Battersea fields)


02 August 1847 - Bell's Weekly Messenger - London, London, England

Early Harvest - Mr. Wright, of the Red House Battersea, carried, in excellent condition, on Saturday last, three acres of rye, grown Battersea-fields.


29 April 1849 - The Era - London, London, England

Death
On the 25th, Mr Charles Wright, of the Red House, Battersea-fields, deeply and universally regretted by all who knew him

(he left a Will)

Charles Wright 4 Jun 1849 Red House Battersea, Surrey, England (Ancestry)

Will of Charles Wright, Wine Merchant of Battersea , Surrey (National Archives)


1851 (Find My Past)
John Hall Head Widower Male 62 1789 Beer Sellar Old House At Home Tooting, Surrey, England
Jn Jones Hall Son Married Male 26 1825 Galvanizer London, Middlesex, England
Alfred Hall Son Unmarried Male 23 1828 Carman London, Middlesex, England
Sarah Hall - Married Female 23 1828 - Battersea, Surrey, England
Jesse Hall Son Unmarried Male 16 1835 Glavanizer London, Middlesex, England
House name Battersea Fields
Parish Battersea
County Surrey
Registration district Wandsworth
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1577
Folio 263
Page 19


(so if he died in area, then perhaps one of below, quite a few!)


Deaths Mar 1853 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
Hall John Wandsworth 1d 305 (on Ancestry, London Burials. 1853. Jan 27 age 84. Abode, Balham)

Deaths Sep 1853 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Hall John Wandsworth 1d 239

Deaths Sep 1857 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Hall John George Wandsworth 1d 234

Deaths Dec 1858 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Hall John Wandsworth 1d 307

Deaths Dec 1859 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Hall John Wandsworth 1d 286

Deaths Mar 1860 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Hall John Wandsworth 1d 334

Deaths Dec 1860 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Hall John Wandsworth 1d 300

Deaths Mar 1861 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
HALL John Wandsworth 1d 306


(and Wills can be checked online, at below)


England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858 (Ancestry)

(also, National Archives below)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/wills-1384-1858/


(after, below)

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 (Ancestry)

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar

(Wills and Probate 1858 – 1996)

Chris :)

(did any Marriages of children take place after 1851, what did it state for John?)

thanks for that. I know he was at the red house in 1854 and is not in the 1861 census so
presume he died between those years but which one is it?
I need a date of death to get a will

Any more about the greengrocers
I appreciate all the help

Aaron married in 1847 dont know about the other 2 but will check it out

John may not have left a Will, and something was posted somewhere, about being a 'landowner', how sure is that?, not seeing anything, quite a bit about history of Battersea Fields, and Red House online.

(if he left a Will, it will be on one of those links posted)

Still not sure Aaron 'owned' a shop, what proof do you have?...

(various Directories are held at London Metropolitan Archives, which helps with addresses)

Chris :)

I don't know whether this is still the case in England, but I can certainly remember in the late 40s through to 1967 when we left the UK, that there were lots of little "shops" around, especially in the North of England.

People would have a little shop in what was basically the front room of their house, even one of those Victorian row houses so common in mill towns.

They would have a small selection of "staples" such as milk, bread, potatoes, some veggies, maybe some packaged foods, etc. They usually charged a bit more than a larger shop would do, but they were convenient ............. and would serve ou on a Sunday if they knew you.

I lived in a flat in Hale Barns, Cheshire in 1966/67, a street of large terraced houses, with a very small front garden. The house across the street had a small shop in its front room (with bay window!), and turned its garden into a small parking lot for the convenience of customers.

I often wonder whether our ancestors shown on censuses as "beer sellers", "grocers", "green grocers", etc were not operating such little local shops in their own homes as a convenience for neighbours. I have both "beer sellers" and "grocers" in both my ancestors and in OH's.

Thank you for all your help

This is a family mystery which the family have been trying to solve for years it is also very interesting.

My husbands grandmother was Margaret Hall whose father was Aaron and his father was John hall

John hall and family all lived at The red house in Battersea on the 1841 and 1851 census. It looks like John's wife Louisa died before 1851

Years ago we got a letter from Battersea Library in Wandsworth telling us that john hall
occupied 11 plots of land on Battersea Park. He did not own or lease them just occupied them
we know he was there in 1854 but not in the 1861 cencus

Handed down through the family we heard he had a dairy herd.
We also knew there was a greengrocers shop .

in the 1861 census both Aaron and his brother john were at the greengrocers
Aaron died in 1870 and in the 1871 census his wife Mary Ann was at the Greengrocers

There have been so many stories handed down that i would like to get to the bottom of it.
I want to put this story into my family tree and give it out to the rest of the family

Elizabeth