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Could anyone help me please with a look up for a birth for a John Moore b approx. 1845- 1850 Glasgow Scotland.
I have a marriage cert stating 21 in 1866 father John Moore occ Weaver. I found this family in the 1851 Scotland census but states John son was born 1850 and father was a Weaver employing 6 men living in Glasgow.

Best you can hope for is a christening. Statutory registration didn't begin in Scotland until 1855.

Scotlandspeople has Parish Records but it is a pay to view site.

Many thanks Rootgatherer

You have quite a choice of baptisms, 1844-54. Which area of Glasgow were they living in in 1851? What was his mother's name in the census?



10/03/1854 MOORE JOHN JOHN MOORE/RACHEL MUIR FR6488 (FR6488) M GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK 644/01 0390 0538

16/02/1845 MUIR JOHN JOHN MUIR/HELEN CUNNINGHAM FR615 (FR615) M RUTHERGLEN GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK 654/00 0030 0310

20/09/1849 MUIR JOHN JOHN MUIR/SOPHIA GINN FR6115 (FR6115) M GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK 644/01 0380 0402

27/04/1851 MUIR JOHN JOHN MUIR/HELEN IZET FR608 (FR608) M GOVAN GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK 646/00 0030 0174

05/08/1851 MUIR JOHN JOHN MUIR/MARGARET WADDELL FR1028 (FR1028) M GORBALS GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK 644/02 0050 0276

16/03/1849 MUIR JOHN SANDS JOHN MUIR/MARY SANDS FR1004 (FR1004) M GORBALS GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK 644/02 0050 0227

I looked at the census you mentioned and the 1861 census. Father John Moore is married to Sarah and a lodger at the house is a 'Foster'



Name:John Moore

Gender:Male

Birth Date:6 Oct 1855 <<<<<<?

Birth Place:High Church,Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland

Father:
John Moore

Mother:
Sarah Foster

FHL Film Number:6035516

Hello Argyllgran. You have been a great help to me in looking up my Moores. who I have now found and now trying to find the roots of the family.
All I know is that John Moore age 21 on his marriage certificate in LLanasa,(Holywell) Wales states father John Moore occ Weaver. Wife Mary Jane Parry age 31 I found a John Moore - weaver living in Glasgow 1851 with wife Sarah and son John b 1850 ?. No John on the 1861 census. However I found John Moore in 1861 on board a vessel in Swansea age 15 yrs old b Glasgow Scotland . John and Mary Jane( Parry) Moore were the parents of Polly Moore ( Mary Ann) in the Manchester workhouse 1904 and daughter Mary Teresa Moore. I found Mary Ann Moore born Holywell Flintshire Wales living in St Johns RC deaf and dumb school Boston Spa Yorks and her parents were John Moore stated gone to America and mother Jane dead. Also on the record page was Lilly Murphy who was Mrs Hawcroft living in Newcastle Street Hulme Manchester same address as Polly Moore in the 1904 workhouse records. 2 of Mrs Elizabeth Hawcrofts lodgers were also on the same record page at St Johns Boston Spa . This has not been the easiest family to find but I have done it except now for finding the birth for John Moore and him going to America which is another story because I am unable to find him and his 2nd wife who went out there between 1881 and 1885 leaving daughter Mary Ann Moore in the Prescot Union Workhouse and just don't know where her other siblings went to, by the way she had a sister called Mary Teresa hence why she must have named her daughter b 1903 after. Thought you might like to know the additional info AG

I think this is the one?


Name:John Moore

Age:1

Estimated birth year:abt 1850

Relationship:Son

Father:John Moore

Mother:Sarah Moore

Gender:Male

Where born:Glasgow, Lanark

Parish Number:622

Civil Parish:Barony

Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:

County:Lanarkshire

Address:69 Great Eastern Road

ED:9C
Page:11

Household schedule number:40

LINE:14
Roll:CSSCT1851_145

Household Members:

John Moore 37 <<Ire
Sarah Moore 24 <<Ire
Eleanor Moore 4
John Moore 1
James Mc Culagh 24
James Coats 20
James Gardner 19
Robert Watson 22
Thoams Foster 16 <<Brother inlaw
John Foster 12

Thank you Gins but I think the birth for son John b 1850 is wrong because on his marriage cert he was 21 in 1866 , the occ of father John is correct Weaver but at the time of marriage he was in Llanasa Wales and on the 1861 on board a vessel in Swansea, which has not been any help in finding a correct birth for him, unless it was wrongly put down on the 1851 census in Glasgow

That's the problem with census information

Ages were almost always wrong and many people didn't know when they were born

Plus, the transcription that I posted for his possible birth could be wrong too. He may have been baptised later than his actual birth or it could be an error of the transcriber!

Who were the witnesses' on the marriage certificate?

Writing is so small it looks like a Maurice Mann, James Carlins and Margaret Parry, Would not think any of his relations went from Scotland it must have been too far to travel in those days. Anyway John worked on small coastal boats by the look of it, if he was working on them at the age of 15 in 1861 , goodness knows how old he must have been when he started working on them certainly not if he was supposed to have been born in 1850 . If his father was a weaver and in the 1851 census had 6 men working for him then surely he would have employed son John, unless he ran away from home.

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Gins, Looking at the birth you found in Glasgow States 6th October 1855 , wonder if it was 1845 because 1855 is even a later date than 1850 in the 1851 census. Think that it must be the John Moore because of the Foster's being brothers of his mother Sarah Also in the 1861 census John was not in the household

The 1855 birth would be registered so you will be able to view / download the registration from Scotlandspeople. In my opinion the 1855 John is certainly not you John.

Your John may have been under 21 when he married but claimed to be if he was unable to prove that he had permission of a parent or guardian to marry.

Did your John indicate if his father was deceased on his marriage certificate please?

Rootgatherer. I have been on to Family Search and seen the transcript that Gins has put on here. Could there have been a mistake in transcribing it? If he was born in 1850 then he would have been only 11 yrs old when he was working on a boat docked in Swansea in 1861 and 16 when he got married, Mary Jane Parry being 31. His occupation a Joiner on marriage cert father John occ weaver. If not as you say not the John I want then just don't know who he could be

That 1855 birth also appears on ScotlandsPeople. If you buy credits you can view and print the image of the original document yourself, to verify the transcription.

1855 MOORE JOHN M HIGH CHURCH GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/02 0159

I can't see any birth or baptism record for the sister Eleanor b.1844 in 1851 census (Helen in 1861 census, transcribed as Harlen on Ancestry).

Just for our ref - john & Mary Jane in 1871:

John Moore
in the 1871 Wales Census
Name: John Moore
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Jane Moore
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Dymerichion and Maenefa
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: St Asaph
Sub-registration district: St Asaph
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 17
Piece: 5667
Folio: 30
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
John Moore 26 - carpenter
Mary Jane Moore 36 born LLanasa
John Thomas Moore 3
Margt Winefred Moore 2
Barnard Joseph Moore 4 Months

Yes AG . That is the family I have. I have just received the marriage cert. for John Moore and Mary Jane Parry, states John was 21 and Mary Jane 31, both lived in Llanasa Holywell Flintshire. Occ for John. Joiner. Father John Moore weaver. Date of marriage 1866. On the 1861 census John was working on a boat age 15 that was docked in Swansea on census night. States born Scotland Glasgow. .Today received a birth certificate for daughter Mary Ann Moore b 3 April 1872 Dymerichion now her birth cert ties up with her being in St John's deaf and dumb school Boston Spa Yorks. in 1885. Stating Father John Moore occ Joiner gone to America and mother Jane Moore dead. This Mary Ann Moore is the Polly Moore on the 1904 Manchester workhouse records. I have just got to establish now the correct birth for her father John Moore b Glasgow Scotland which seems conflicting birth dates. Unless there is another John Moore who is a weaver that could be his father

I'm inclined to think that neither the 1850 John, nor the 1855 one, sons of John and Sarah nee Foster, is your John. I suspect that the 1850 John died and they reused the name for the 1855 one.
The fact that there's no baptism record of John 1850 nor his sister Eleanor / Helen is a nuisance, but not too unusual, as official registration hadn't started.

I don't see any other John Moore (or variant spelling) with father John, a weaver, in 1851 and not in 1861.
It's possible they somehow slipped through the census net.

Or else his father was not at home on census night. Here are some Johns with no father listed - not very helpful, I know!:

John More
in the 1851 Scotland Census
Name: John More
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relationship: Son
Mother: Elizbeth More
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark
Parish Number: 644/2
Civil Parish: Gorbals
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 73 Main Street
ED: 7A
Page: 14
Household schedule number: 48
LINE: 13
Roll: CSSCT1851_164
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizbeth More 27
John More 6
John Hosie 18
Jane Falconer 21


John Moore
in the 1851 Scotland Census
Name: John Moore
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relationship: Great Grandchild (Grandchild)
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Parish Number: 644/1
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Mungo
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 102 Rottenrow
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 19
Page: 6
Household schedule number: 22
LINE: 4
Roll: CSSCT1851_158
Household Members:
Name Age
Barbara Moore 60
Alexander Moore 16 - son
Robert Moore 14 - son
George Moore 12 - son
John Moore 6 - grandchild


John Moore
in the 1851 Scotland Census
Name: John Moore
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark
Parish Number: 651
Civil Parish: New Monkland
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Crossheads
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 9
Page: 14
Household schedule number: 49
LINE: 7
Roll: CSSCT1851_170
Household Members:
Name Age
William Dalrymple 60
Margaret Dalrymple 64
Elizabeth Dalrymple 28
Margaret Thomson 5
William Thomson 15
Elizabeth Moore 9
John Moore 7
William Moore 5
Alexander Moore 5


Records of their births / baptisms are clearly not all listed on ScotlandsPeople - before compulsory registration.

Hi AG, it's all so frustrating,can't believe the Moore family have been so difficult to find. I hadn't seen the one with Elizabeth More as mother but have seen all the others. Thought it may have been him with Grandmother Barbara, other than the 1851 can't find Barbara anywhere else, thought I may have found a daughter or son who could have been a parent to John. Then there is the John Moore age 7 as lodger. Perhaps because John had no parents alive that's why he went to sea at 15., just why though he states his father as John and weaver is a mystery, unless he was born somewhere else in Scotland and on the 1861 census it was wrongly put down for him. I could try looking for his father John to see where he might been. It certainly didn't state deceased on marriage cert of John and Mary Jane