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OR .......

Coal Porter could also mean someone who carried coal in bags from ships to dockside warehouses, or from warehouses to carts for delivery to customers.

There were many areas where coal would have to be carried back then, not just in the mines


I can even remember seeing men carrying bags of coal on their shoulders, and then dumping the coal down hatches into the basements of business establishments in Lancashire in the 1950s.


I don't think there were any coal mines in Camden :-)

Found by GOOGLING

Coal Porter:

Someone who worked in the mining industry transporting coal.

Hi everyone
The birth certificate eventually arrived today, Australia Post speed, you were correct Prickly Holly, mothers' maiden name Swayne, Elizabeth Swayne of 21 Kings Road Camden and Father Yes William Keefe the coal porter. Is that a fancy name for a coalman?
:-)

Do get back to us Jeanne when you received the birth cert.

Prickles. :-D

Wow you two are magnificent, I'd buy you that cream cake if you were here.
I hope the birth certificate does show the mother's maiden name.
Yes and I was wondering about the two nieces as well, Ada and Louisa Roberts.
Thankyou. :-)

Thanks to my trusty magnifying glass.........you are right Dea.

:-S :-D

OOhhh Prickles - I thought you had uncovered another mystery for us to work on with that name 'Tusdyne' but I have looked and both Maria and Mary Ann's surname says 'Swayne' - they just have very bad handwriting !!!!! ;-) :-(

Dea Xxx

This might possibly be Sarah Anne Swayne on the 1861 census........although it has her born Kent.......

??

Sarah Swayne in the 1861 England Census
Name:Sarah Swayne
Age:35
Estimated Birth Year:1826
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:William Swayne
Gender:Female
Where born:Kent, England
Civil Parish:St Bartholomew the Great
County/Island:Middlesex
Country:England
Registration district:West London
Sub-registration district:West London North


Household Members:

William Swayne 50 .....(Greengrocer) Chertsey
Sarah Swayne 35
George Swayne 16
James Swayne 12
Sarah Swayne 11
Mary Ann Swayne 9
Maria Swayne 6
Charlotte Swayne 4
Ava Swayne 2 (Possibly Ada who appears in the 1871 census)
Mary Fleming 26


It seems mother Sarah Ann Swayne died in 1871.......

Sarah Ann Swayne in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name:Sarah Ann Swayne
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1826
Registration Year:1871
Registration Quarter:Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death:45
Registration district:London City
Inferred County:London
Volume:1c
Page:42

Elizabeth and Ada were admitted to the London Union Workhouse........

Ada Swayne in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930
Name:Ada Swayne
Birth Date:abt 1860
Admission Age:11
Admission Date:12 Sep 1871
Discharge Date:21 Sep 1871
Record Type:Admission and Discharge
Borough:City of London
Parish or Poor Law Union:City of London
Place:London, England
Title:Homerton Workhouse, 1871-1873

With Elizabeth........age 9

Ada possibly died in 1877

Ada Swayne in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name:Ada Swayne
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1860
Registration Year:1877
Registration Quarter:Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death:17
Registration district:London City District
Inferred County:London
Volume:1c
Page:24




The daughter Maria (Who appears as Louisa in the 1871 census) married George Roberts in 1874.

Maria Louisa Swayne in the London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name:Maria Louisa Swayne (Spinster)
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1853
Age:21
Spouse: George Roberts (Bachelor) French Polisher
Spouse Age:21
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:1 Jan 1874
Parish:St John, Clerkenwell
Borough:Islington
Father Name:William Swayne (Fruiterer)
Spouse Father:George Roberts (Tailor)
Register Type:Parish Register
Witnesses: George Roberts and Mary Ann Tusdyne????

Oddly.....Maria Louisa signs her name as.......Maria Louisa Tusdyne??

Note that on the 1891 and 1901 census, William Keefe has nieces Louisa and Ada Roberts living with him.

I all fits nicely into place doesn't it?

I think I will treat myself to a fresh cream cake or something!

;-) :-D

Oh I'm so glad you said that Prickles as I specifically checked that it wasn't there before I posted it, especially as I had already posted a marriage earlier in the thread that you had already given :-0 :-D :-D

You will have a big smile on your face all day now after working all that out, especially after the original poster has seen it all ! This is why we all do this isn't it?

Dea Xxx

Ooops.........I just edited and added that marriage.

So it seems Charlotte was Elizabeth's sister and a witness to her marriage.

Phew! :-D

You have cracked it Prickles - well done !!!

I had been working on Charlotte Carter and came up with this as a possible marriage:

Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
Carter Patrick Holborn 1b 1210 Scan available - click to view
Gibson Joseph Holborn 1b 1210 Scan available - click to view
SWAYNE Charlotte Isabella Holborn 1b 1210 Scan available - click to view
YEOWELL Jane Holborn 1b 1210 Scan available - click to view

Also toyed with the 'O'Keefe' side but all I had were bits and pieces which I gave up on last night.

This does all fit.!

Dea x

Ooops........I see you have already sent for the birth certificate.

Well at least it will confirm if her Mothers maiden name was Swayne.

Prickles. :-)

On the 1891 census it states that Elizabeth was born in Smithfield

Elizabeth Swayne in the 1871 England Census
Name:Elizabeth Swayne
Age:8
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1863
Relation:Daughter (Child)
Mother's name:Sarah Anne Swayne
Gender:Female
Where born:Long Lane; Smithfield
Civil Parish:St Andrew Holborn
Ecclesiastical parish:St Alban
County/Island:London
Country:England
Registration district:Holborn
Sub-registration district:St Andrew Eastern

Household Members:


Sarah Anne Swayne 42 (Widow....Charwoman) Ireland
Louisa Swayne 16
Charlotte Swayne 14
Ada Swayne 11
Elizabeth Swayne 8

(Children all born Long Lane Smithfield)

It seems Sister Charlotte was Elizabeth's married visitor in the 1881 census.......

Charlotte Isabella Swayne in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name:Charlotte Isabella Swayne
Spouse Name: Patrick Carter
Registration Year:1877
Registration Quarter:Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district:Holborn
Inferred County:London
Volume:1b
Page:1210

I checked out marriages after 1880 and came across this........


Marriages Mar 1883 (>99%)
Keeffe William Pancras 1b 143
SWAYNE Elizabeth Pancras 1b 143

Elizabeth Swayne in the London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name:Elizabeth Swayne (Spinster) Residence for both...Old ~St Pancras
Father......Dead
Spouse:William Keeffe (Bachelor) Coal Porter (Same occupation he has on the 1891 census)
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:4 Feb 1883
Parish:St Pancras Old St Pancras
Borough:Camden
Spouse Father:Patrick Keeffe (Labourer)
Register Type:Parish Register
Witnesses: J W Rearson and C Carter.<<<<<


That might very well be Elizabeth as Eliza on the 1881 census that Dea posted.

Pretending she was already married at the time. Also note that one of the witnesses is "C Carter" Eliza has a visitor Charlotte Carter with her in 1881.

Back in mo with further info..........

I spent all evening yesterday trying to find information regarding the father William Keefe.

I had 8 windows open and was tempted to post all the information I found........ but I chose not to because I didn't want to confuse things.

Well, I wish I had now because on checking back this morning I was right.

I came to the conclusion that William Keefe was actually William O'Keefe son of Patrick and Ellen.... and he was.

Here goes..........

This is the 1861 census I was working on.......

William Okeeffe in the 1861 England Census
Name:William Okeeffe
Age:8/12
Estimated Birth Year:1860
Relation:Son (Child)
Father's name:Patrick Okeeffe
Mother's name:Ellen Okeeffe
Gender:Male
Where born: St Andrew, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Holborn St Andrew
County/Island:Middlesex
Country:England
Registration district:Holborn
Sub-registration district:St Andrew Eastern

Household Members:

Patrick Okeeffe 32 (Builders Labourer) Ireland
Ellen Okeeffe 35 Ireland
Mary Okeeffe 5
Eugan Okeeffe 3 (Going by the 1871 census this is Eugene)
William Okeeffe 8/12 <<<<<<<<<

Eugene's birth....

??
Eugene Patrick O'keeffe in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name:Eugene Patrick O'keeffe
Registration Year:1858
Registration Quarter:Apr-May-Jun
Registration district:Holborn
Inferred County:London
Volume:1b
Page:421


(Eugene has been transcribed as "Daughter" on the 1871 census)


William Okeefe in the 1871 England Census
Name:William Okeefe
Age:10
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1861
Relation:Son (Child)
Father's name:Patrick Okeefe
Mother's name:Ellen Okeefe
Gender:Male
Where born:Holborn, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:St George Bloomsbury
Ecclesiastical parish:Finsbury
County/Island:London
Country:England
Registration district:St Giles
Sub-registration district:St George Bloomsbury

Household Members:

Patrick Okeefe 40 (Bricklayers Labourer) Limerick Ireland
Ellen Okeefe 35 Limerick Ireland
Mary Okeefe 15
Eugene Okeefe 13
William Okeefe 10
Johannah Okeefe 8
Ellen Okeefe 6
Bridget Okeefe 3
Margaret Okeefe 1

Thankyou Dea, Prickly Holly and Chris Ho. I have sent off for the birth certificate for Ivy Lilian Keefe at gro.gov.uk won't be here till next week.
If I seem a bit slow in replying I am new to all this searching and it takes a while to get the hang of it all. My mum's side is from Ireland and would really like to find the connection there. Thanks for finding the twin that had died, I never saw that.

Do you think this one is worth looking into?

I haven't been able to trace them further so far :-(

1881:
Name: William J. Keeffe
Relationship to Head: Son (Child)
Mother: Eliza Keeffe
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 31 Portpool Lane

Registration district: Holborn
Sub registration district: St Andrew Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 341
Folio: 117
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Keeffe 18 - married, book folder, b. London
William J. Keeffe 5 months
Charlotte Carter 23 - married, seed sorter, b. London, visitor

Dea x

The best place to purchase certificates Jeanne is online from the General Registers Office here.........

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

It states on the child William's School Admissions Record, that he was born 15th Nov 1880.

I am not seeing a birth registered for a William Keefe in late 1880 or in 1881.

If he was born 1880, then he should appear on the 1881 census.

Perhaps his birth was registered with Elizabeth's maiden name and they both appear together on the 1881 census with that surname.