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I am looking for our long lost Granny who was born ALBERTA ALETA DE LA GRANGE in Durban, South Africa.
She married my grandfather JOHN MARTIN COLLINS ( in Durban) on 20th July 1917 - they travelled via ship to Southampton and she lived in the UK with him and their three sons until he died suddenly in 1924.
Her last known address that I have after his death was 22 Wells Street, London W1 on 2/09/1924.
She appears to have vanished into thin air after giving her three sons up for fostering.
Please can anyone help find what happened to her.

Have you discounted this?

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) ALBERTA A
Last name COLLINS
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1958
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ ALBERTA A COLLINS married
JOHN G ROBINSON

District SURREY NORTHERN
County Surrey
Country England
Volume 5G
Page 731

?? England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) ALBERTA A
Last name ROBINSON
Gender Female
Birth year 1878
Age 79
Death quarter 1
Death year 1957
District PORTSMOUTH
County Hampshire
Volume 6B
Page 485
Country England

Name: John Martin Collins
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Jul 1917
Event Place: Durban, Natal, South Africa
Gender: Male
Age: 42
Birth Year (Estimated): 1875
Spouse's Name: Alberta Aleta La Grange
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Age: 23
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): 1894

Reference ID: 135 , GS Film number: 1795576 , Digital Folder Number: 004236646 , Image Number: 01722

Name: Alberta A Collins
Event Type: Marriage Registration
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year: 1958
Registration District: Surrey Northern
County: Surrey
Event Place: Surrey Northern, Surrey, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911): Robinson
Volume: 5G
Page: 731
Line Number: 19


Alberta A Collins probably married one of the following people
Name: John G Robinson

???????????

Name: Aletha Alberta Robinson
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1974
Registration District: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969): 12 Nov 1895
Volume: 32
Page: 0814
Line Number: 88

Name: Alberta A Robinson
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1957
Registration District: Portsmouth
County: Hampshire
Event Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Age (available after 1866): 79
Birth Year (Estimated): 1878
Volume: 6B
Page: 485
Line Number: 77

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message from Valerie


Looking for anything related to my grandparents - grandfather was John Collins or Martin-Collins - changed name from Cohen - married in Durban July 20th 1917

who is the Rosaline Collins in your header?????????

Rosaline Martin Collins age 19 arrived in Southampton 17 Sept 1919, shown as housewife

with John Martin Collins, Retiree


UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960

Name: Rosaline Martin Collins
Birth Date: abt 1900
Age: 19
Port of Departure: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Arrival Date: 17 Sep 1919
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Cape Town
Ship Name: Runic
Search Ship Database: Search for the Runic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: White Star Dominion Line
Official Number: 113441


Name: John Martin Collins
[John Martin Collins]
Birth Date: abt 1875
Age: 44
Port of Departure: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Arrival Date: 17 Sep 1919
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Cape Town
Ship Name: Runic



the actual image is very poor, I think the following is correct ......


They boarded the ship in Capetown, and gave the following address:-

Hotel Russell
Russell Square, London

Dear Well Dressing - thank you very much for the information - I do have my grandparents marriage certificate that I found by visiting the records office in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa.
I only had my grandmothers 'British' name of Rosaline Collins or Martin-Collins then but knew that they were married there and my grandfather had changed name and religion from Cohen to Collins and Jewish to Church of England.
My grandmother was Roman Catholic. The marriage certificate did state that he was 42 years old and Grandmother was 23 years old .
From information that I received from Barnados in the UK ( when she placed two of her small sons there due to her husband dying on 1st July 1924 aged 49), she had told them she was 26! This meant to me that she was born in 1898?
The rest of the information that she gave to Barnados was that she was of French extraction born in SA and her mother died when she was 18 months old and was then brought up in a Roman Catholic convent.
Her father died in 1915 ( she would have been 17) and he was a farmer in SA. She then married my grandfather in 1917 ( aged 19?) and in 1919 they came to England.I did find the incoming passenger list thank you that you have posted.
I believe that she may have lied about her age when she married as there is a column on the marriage certificate that under 21 years of age needs parental consent and of course they were both deceased by then. Her name on the marriage certificate is Alberta Aleta la Grange age 23 years.
My grandfather is named as John Martin Collins on the marriage certificate.
On the two eldest sons birth certificates he is named as John Martin-Collins and grandmother is named as Rosaline Martin -Collins formerly La Grange and the second son ( my father), Rosaline Martin-Collins, formerly Dela Grange.
The youngest son has John Martin Collins and Rosaline Collins formerly De La Grange.
All of the sons are deceased now but I have found a first cousin in New Zealand (September 2011) and we have become very close and met up in the last few years a few times. She recalls her father (the youngest son) telling her that he was being dressed in his best clothes and taken to The Hotel Russell to meet an 'old' lady?? She would not have been elderly if this was his mother but not sure who it was - as they gave that address, maybe they knew someone who was there when they arrived from SA?
The eldest son was born in the county of Southampton on 19th January 1920 and so I guess she was pregnant on the journey from SA?
There are many mysteries for us as she seemed to disappear following my grandfathers untimely death in Gillingham, Kent in 1924.
The youngest son was less than 4 months old when she asked the RC priest to find someone to look after him and she would return as she had no money.
The older two were placed with Barnados for only 6 months which indicates that she hoped to return for them too as they were not put up for adoption.
The oldest son, Leslie Victor Collins I believe was in the Merchant navy and died in America. Social security index: Leslie V. Collins , SSN 129-20-6784, born 19th January 1920, Died 10th December 1996.

Thank you very much for anything that you have, or do find, as it is quite a task.

The births of the 3 sons were registered in several different ways and the family certainly travelled around! Thank goodness FMP threw them up (just by entering Collins/Grange) under the various surname/mothers maiden name combinations to then find on freebmd

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Collins Leslie V La Grange Southampton 2c 143

Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Martin-Collins Leslie V Le Grange Southampton 2c 143

Births Mar 1923 (>99%)
Martin-Collins Howard De La Grange Lancaster 8e 1085

Births Jun 1924 (>99%)
Collins Richard P De la Grange Medway 2a 1249

Valerie


Thank you for the fuller explanation ..... that could give us more information on what / who / where to look



Sylvia (In Canada)

Thank you Sylvia - very grateful for your assistance

I am looking for my Grandfathers three brothers who resided at The Odd or Old Fellows in Pitt Street, Sydney in July 1924.
Their names were Cohen and they sent money to my Grandmother in the UK when my grandfather, (who had changed his name from Cohen) named John Martin Collins died on the 1st July 1924 leaving her with three small sons.

Valerie I think everyone was rather fully occupied trying to figure out the original part of your query :-)

Pitt Street, Sydney, is in NSW Australia (always wise to specify country, people here are from all over ... you may be using the .com.au or .za or .nz version of this site but most here are reading your posts on .co.uk).

John Martin Collins/Cohen was born c1875 ... in South Africa?

do you know any of the brothers' first names? that information is rather essential if you have it

https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search

I looked at Cohen births in NSW for a John c1875 and there seems to be no match with any John who had three brothers (searching births 1860-1890 with the same mother as any of the John or Jonas births)

I assume they were all born in SA ... but the three brothers settled in NSW?


Oddfellows is a fraternal organization

http://www.manta.com/ic/mvm4prc/au/manchester-unity-independent-order-of-oddfellows

Manchester Unity Independent Order Of Oddfellows
Manchester Unity Travel
307 Pitt St
Sydney, NSW 2000, Australia

this site
http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/cbd/cbd4-052.htm
suggests that the Oddfellows moved to Pitt St after 1923

more info about Oddfellows in Australia:
http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/themes/2003/grand-united-order-of-oddfellows

ultimately 'Then in March 2005, Grand United Friendly Society (New South Wales) merged with Australian Unity.'
http://www.australianunity.com.au/about-us

... unfortunately it doesn't seem likely that the organization would have records from the early days as a travellers' lodge ...

if his brothers were born sometime around the same time as John (the 1870s) it seems odd they would all be single and staying at this lodge in the 1920s ... perhaps they used it as a postal address ...

available NSW electoral rolls only begin in 1930
http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1207

in 1930 there were 794 Cohens on the electoral roll in NSW ... 99 male Cohens in Sydney ...

There are so many Cohens in the NSW BMD indexes that it would be hopeless to try to identify them without their names or at least their parents' names (which are shown in the deaths index ... if they were known)

the death that AnnCardiff posted of Aletha Alberta Robinson in Birmingham is interesting

it could match with this death for the husband

Name: John G Robinson
Birth Date: abt 1894
Date of Registration: Sep 1966
Age at Death: 72
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 41


into all our lives the price of a few certificates must fall ... you will want to consider some of these ideas and decide whether to order a marriage and/or death certificate to check them out, for instance


you say you have your grandparents' marriage certificate - does it not name one or both of John's parents??