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Thank you

Sheila ...............



not all records are on the web


ALL of us have missing information, and just have to wait until it becomes available


IF this family is Catholic, as seems likely, then you will have a longer wait ...............


as Beverley has said, the Catholic churches have not agreed to let LDS have access to their records .............. and familysearch is an LDS site.

and they have also been very slow, or reluctant, to let other sites have access, or to transcribe the records themselves





I notice that you also queried the spelling of Theresa as being yours.


Most of our ancestors were illiterate, and you will find all kinds of weird and wonderful mis-spellings.

However, some spellings are almost interchangeable ............ just as they are today.

Someone writing down a name will often just spell it as they know it


so


Theresa and Teresa ...... or even Teresia


Ellen, Helen, Hellen .......... even Elinor or Eleanor as I am finding out at the moment


James, Jas


you even have other examples in the Oatest family ........

Selina, Celina, Silina, Cilina


Maria, could be found as Marie or Mary



My name ............ Sylvia, Silvia



I had a school friend who spelled her name Shiela



Never ever discount a record because the name is not spelled exactly as you think it should be.

If all else fits ........ such as place, date, name(s) of parent(s) ............ then it is yours!

Because they were Catholics and many Catholic churches and parishes have not agreed to give their records to the LDS (familysearch) or to publish them elsewhere online.

Thank you for "putting me right " But it still does not explain why there is not listings for most of their children. Richard, Maria, Cecelia & Joseph------ I think that I will give up on this family .
:-S

to follow on from what Beverley has just posted .................


a number of my father's early relatives are seemingly baptized into the Mormon Church


Unfortunately for them .............. that happened at least 100 years after they died, being elevated into the Mormon Church by a descendant who was converted to that religion much later.


I say "unfortunately" because they were all originally baptised, married and buried in the Anglican religion, and had no choice in being re-baptised.



Please do accept that you have misunderstood the official term on the 1841 Census of "BIC" .............................. which really does mean Born In County.

Sheila


As Beverley said ...............


"BIC" on the 1841 ENGLISH and Wales census means .............Born In County

It was a term used only on the 1841 Census ................ all later censuses have a space where the actual birthplace is stated ............... often incorrect, but still stated.


It has nothing to do with the LDS religion.


It certainly would not have been included in a census as early as 1841 in England when the State Religion was Anglican, as it remains to this day.



Please do not mis-read and mis-understand!



All that census tells us is that David was born in Ireland, but Maria and the children had been born somewhere in Middlesex!

Dear sheilafromdownunder

The original of the 1841 census has an 'I' for Ireland by the entry for David and a 'Y' for 'Yes' next to all the other names in the family.
This means that apart from David they were born in the county where the census was taken.
They appear to be Catholics and David was buried as a Catholic.
Do you have any reason to believe that they made the very radical change to the Mormon faith?
I don't know which transcription you have looked at but the Mormons believe in the posterior baptism of deceased people into their church through family history which is why they run the familysearch site.
I still think that BiC means simply Born in County (Middlesex).

Is this not Richard? Original says born 6 Nov. 1828, father a soldier. Address Kings Road.

Richard Oates

in the London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Richard Oates
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 Feb 1829
Father's name: David Oates
Mother's name: Maria Oates
Parish or Poor Law Union: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Registers

Most LDS records of births and marriages are done by descendants long after the death of the participants. Actually the LDS Church didn't come into existence until about 1830.

Beverley , bic means Born in Covenant which means their parents were married in a LDS Temple of Eternity . Which I find hard to understand as at least 1 of their daughters Emily ( my 3x Great grand mother) was married in a RC church in Chelsea and David & Maria came from Ireland

It is 11 30 in Oz so I am of to bed thank for your help today

Sheilafromdownunder :-)

Maria Machamtachead

in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Record Image Index-only record

Name: Maria Machamtachead
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 28 Jan 1828
Marriage Place: Saint James,Paddington,London,England
Spouse: David Oates
FHL Film Number: 579635

Maria Machamtachead

in the England, Pallot's Marriage Index, 1780 - 1837
Record Image View

Name: Maria Machamtachead
Spouse: David Oates

No more info on original.

BIC on the 1841 census surely means 'born in county'?????

thanks is could be .No way of checking . but i'll try

No idea if this is the Teresa on 1851 census

First name(s) THERESA
Last name OATES
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1842
Age 36
Death quarter 4
Death year 1878
District KENSINGTON
County London
Volume 1A
Page 131
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

GlitterBaby--- I don't have the faintest idea . It has to be a miss spelling or miss ??????

1871 think I am going around in circles now.
Who is Perry or Penny ?


Name: Perry Oates
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Maria Oates
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: Old Church
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, South
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 74
Folio: 46
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Maria Oates 63
Perry Oates 28
Emily Bailey 25
William Bailey 6
Charlotte Tosh 81

BIC in LDS genealogy records stands for Born In Covenant, meaning their parents were married in an LDS temple for eternity, thus all subsequent children are referred to in LDS-speak as "BIC", sometimes abbreviated also as "BUC" or Born Under Covenant

1841 census living ? Little Chester Street South, Belgravia David aged 40 born in Ireland ?? Private Soldier Maria aged 30 says bic but all other census say Ireland Richards aged 12 bic Celiena aged 10 bic Martha aged 6 bic Maria aged 3 bic Cecelia aged 1 bic
I think this is why I don't understand anything about the Oates mob :-S

Looks like they were Catholics; many Catholic registers are not widely available.

Since Maria's mother was Catherine Rogan, what does Machamtachead mean?

??
First name(s) DAVID
Last name OATES
Birth year 1800
Death year 1850
Age 50
Burial year 1850
Burial day 17
Burial month 9
Place CHELSEA
Church description ALL SOULS CATHOLIC CEMETERY
Church denomination ROMAN CATHOLIC
County Middlesex
Country England
Record set National Burial Index for England & Wales
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records



Been looking for marriages but out of luck at the moment