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Hi Gins, thanks for the link to the application form for the wills. I've been off work for 7 months while I had a baby, so money will be a bit tight for a while and I may not do it for a while yet. But It's something I would love to do in time. I'll be sure to post the details of it in here.
SylvialnCanada I wish I could get my hands on some electoral rolls, I can't seem to access any online at this stage (I tried find.my.past.com). The library in my state capital has some electoral rolls for WA, so I may have to wait until then!

Lauren


There is no proof that that 1909 Shipping list was for Ellen .................... it just says Mrs E


That was why I put so many question marks :-)


If her son gives her address as in Perth in 1914, then that is probably correct.

Are there any electoral rolls for Perth that you could consult to see if she really was living there?

You have Carol* address from the probate details that I posted, there was no abode listed on her mother's probate, just her place of death.

It might be more informative to send for a copy of the Will(s)

Carol* probate mentions that she did leave a Will, Ellen has no mention but it doesn't mean that there isn't one

The Will for Ellen will give you details on Elizabeth Ethel Walker and who knows what else you might find.

They are £10 each Will, here is the link for the application form

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/searching-for-probate-records

If you decide to send for them, please come back and let us know :-)

Thanks SylvialnCanada, I'll have a look on ancestry in the not too distant future. I only pay for a month subscription once or twice a year to save money :)

I think buying both Caroline's and Ellen's death certificates would be a really good idea, thanks for the suggestion.

The passenger list for 1909 that you mentioned has me a bit confused. Ellen was stated as living in Perth on her sons AIF enlistment in 1914. Her husband Harcourt died in 1904, so she would've considered herself to be widowed (even though I think it's now obvious that they weren't married).

If you buy Caroline's death certificate, you should find out who reported her death ........... hopefully, it might be her mother and there might be an address for her mother.

there are several Ellen Rosina Barrett's on the London Electoral Rolls from ca 1918 .......... on ancestry



?????possibly yours??

???????????????



she's on the manifest as "widow"



UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960


Name: Mrs E Barrett
Port of Departure: Sydney, Australia
Arrival Date: 4 Jul 1909
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Sydney
Ship Name: Suevic
Search Ship Database: Search for the Suevic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Peninsula and Orient Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number: 93192

Hey guys, I've got all birth, marriage, death, census, occupation, AIF enlistment, most newspaper articles and addresses already. I appreciate all the help. After years of hitting brick walls, I was especially interested in finding where Ellen Rosina and Caroline Yeoman ended up, when they died, and finding any marriage or shipping info for Harcourt and Ellen.
I think what +++DetEcTive+++ has said about unmarried couples saying they are married to appear respectable is the likely scenario for Harcourt and Ellen.

Many thanks!

this must be ellen in i871 census


Ellen Yeoman
England and Wales Census, 1871
Name: Ellen Yeoman
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 12
Relationship to Head of Household: Servant
Birthplace: St Pancras, Middlesex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Islington
Sub-District: Islington, East
Parish: Islington
County: London, Middlesex
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James H Jackson Self M 25 Hoxton, Middlesex
Elizabeth E Jackson Wife F 27 Westminster, Middlesex
William A Jackson Son M 2 Islington, Middlesex
Edith E Jackson Daughter F 1 Islington, Middlesex
Ellen Yeoman Servant F 12 St Pancras, Middlesex

this is the family in 1881 no father


Marie Barrett
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name: Marie Barrett
Age (Original): 12
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1869
Birthplace: St Mary Islington, Middlesex, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Address: 3 Percy Circus
Event Place: Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Record Type: Household
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 349 / 41
Page Number: 26
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Louisa Barrett Head F 42 St Giles Cripplegate, Middlesex, England
Florence Barrett Daughter F 17 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Vernon Barrett Son M 16 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Charles Barrett Son M 15 St Mary Islington, Middlesex, England
Julia Barrett Daughter F 13 St Mary Islington, Middlesex, England
Marie Barrett Daughter F 12 St Mary Islington, Middlesex, England
Louisa Lawrence Boarder F 21 Portsea, Hampshire, England

Louisa E Barrett
England and Wales Census, 1871
Name: Louisa E Barrett
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 32
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birthplace: Crippleyale, Middlesex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Islington
Sub-District: Islington, West
Parish: Islington
County: London, Middlesex
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Harcourt Barrett Self M 32 Walworth, Surrey
Louisa E Barrett Wife F 32 Crippleyale, Middlesex
Florence A Barrett Daughter F 7 Bloomsbury, Middlesex
Vernon E Barrett Son M 6 Bloomsbury, Middlesex
Charles A Barrett Son M 5 Islington, Middlesex
Julie E Barrett Daughter F 3 Islington, Middlesex
Marie L Barrett Daughter F 2 Islington, Middlesex
Harriet Preston Servant F 13 Northampton, Bonefield

COPY PRINT SOURCE BOX SHARE
Louisa Stedman
England and Wales, Marriage Registration Index
Name: Louisa Stedman
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year: 1862
Registration District: Strand
County: London
Event Place: Strand, London, England
Volume: 1B
Page: 729
Line Number: 15

Louisa Stedman probably married one of the following people
Name: Harcourt Barrett

Even searched WA & SA marriages thinking they may have married in Australia but no luck. I don't think they married at all and it was just as common back then as now.

Not sure if you have these records from the Australian Archives
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=3052436

and a case of mistaken identity
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/106502454?searchTerm=edward%20harcourt%20barrett&searchLimits=

Still searching shipping info.

They may have never married - as you know the 1911 UK census asks how many years they were married. It wasn't unknown for them to declare X number of years, just so that they appear respectable, and their children legitimate.

Earlier census will list couples as husband and wife even though, as researchers, we discover a marriage long after they started to co-habit.

Thanks so much for the quick replies everyone! I've been stumped on a lot of these brickwalls for years,

Gins, I never even thought to search "Carol*", I wouldn't have thought the unusual spelling of "Carolyne" could be the same person as my relative.
I have come across the Ellen Barrett probate of 1944 before, but without the hint of a middle name and the recipient of the probate had me put it on the backburner. I couldn't find if Elizabeth Ethel Walker was a relative, and had trouble finding her maiden name in order to trace this. I guess she was just a close friend. Or perhaps she's an illegitimate child of Caroline's, since she never married.

MarieCeleste, that is bizarre they have named Harcourt as "Harcourt W.".
On his death certificate and with all three children born and registered in South Australia he doesn't have a middle name. It's the same for his birth on freebmd, and his marriage to Louisa. His father's name was William, so perhaps he loosely adopted a middle name?

Good point Maryb! Perhaps it was some time after Florence's marriage it was assumed he was dead. Or maybe they knew all along. It's all so bizarre...

Now that just leaves the mystery of the marriage and the shipping list...
Since he wasn't legally divorced to Louisa, the marriage to Ellen probably never officially happened. Given she was 20 years younger than he was, would she have been naive enough to believe in a fake ceremony? Did this kind of thing happen back then?

15/9/1888 daughter Florence Ada marries states dad Harcourt Barrett doesn't say deceased as it does for the grooms dad!!

Maryb.

Name: Harcourt Barrett
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 23 Oct 1904
Burial Place: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Death Date: 22 Oct 1904
Death Place: Subiaco
Age: 65
Birth Date: 1839
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Ellen Barrett

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B01298-6 , System Origin: Australia-EASy , GS Film number: 1669300 , Reference ID: Item 6/23

Name: Harcourt Barrett
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1841
Gender: Male
Age: 2
Birthplace: Surrey
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: St Saviour Union
Sub-District: Christ Church
Parish: Christ Church
County: Surrey

Name: Ellen Rosina Yeoman
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1859
Registration District: Pancras
County: London
Event Place: Pancras, London, England
Volume: 1B
Page: 140
Line Number: 33

Hello Lauren, this death notice gives him a middle initial of "W" - do you have any idea what that stood for? Just thinking he may have used his middle name.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/164906987?searchTerm=%22harcourt%20barrett%22&searchLimits=