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Yes the soldiers are mine, pitty their wasn't a photo of Sam At least it lets me know that his wife couldn't have married her brother in law Ernest if he was killed also.
So the marriage certificate is still a mystery as to who Ernest is.

It does look as though the marriage of Margaret Howarth To Herbert Matthews is right as Margaret Matthews is on the army documents

Thank you

Thank you for your help

I'll have to go into this I was hoping The forces record would have his enlisting forms my own granddad was killed in WW1 and the document I saw for him had his wife and children on.

With this family I found out that samuel Howarth 1883 married poss 1910 had 2/3 children Nora 1910? Emily 1912 & Sam 1914, Sam junior was killed in WW1 his wfe Maggie nee Byrne remarried,
When Sam junior married in 1939 he put his father down as Ernest Howarth but asking about it I found Ernest was his step dad.
Bit complicated !!

If that CWGC record is for your Sam, his widow married a Herbert Matthews:

HOWARTH Margaret MATTHEWS Herbert J Salford Register Office or Registrar Attended Salford SAL/132/149

Does Norah ring a bell?


Name:Sam Howarth
Age in 1911:27
Estimated birth year:abt 1884
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Eccles, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Eccles
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Street address:1 Bentclife St Eccles
Marital Status:Married
Occupation:Mechanics Labourer
Registration district:Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number:463

Sam Howarth 27
Maggie Howarth 21
Nora Howarth 7/12

http://salfordwarmemorials.proboards.com/thread/908/st-marys-eccles?page=5

(also on above, with an Ernest (Brother, Photo) from google search)


HOWARTH, ERNEST

Rank: Rifleman Service No: B/1823 Date of Death: 30/07/1915 Regiment/Service: Rifle Brigade 7th Bn. Panel Reference: Panel 46 - 48 and 50. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

Chris :)

(possibly Brothers below)

1891 (Find My Past)
Alfred Howarth Head Married Male 38 1853 Carter Eccles, Lancashire, England
Ann Howarth Wife Married Female 34 1857 - Eccleshall, Staffordshire, England
Saml Howarth Son Single Male 9 1882 Scholar Eccles, Lancashire, England
William Howarth Son Single Male 6 1885 Scholar Eccles, Lancashire, England
Ernest Howarth Son Single Male 1 1890 Scholar Eccles, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Wilson - Widow Female 75 1816 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Street Clegg Street
Town Eccles
Parish Barton upon Irwell
City Eccles
County Lancashire
Registration district Barton upon Irwell
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 3152
Folio 66
Page 19

From CWGC website:

Lancashire Landing Cemetery:

Country:Turkey (including Gallipoli)
)Identified Casualties:1102

Historical Information

The eight month campaign in Gallipoli was fought by Commonwealth and French forces in an attempt to force Turkey out of the war, to relieve the deadlock of the Western Front in France and Belgium, and to open a supply route to Russia through the Dardanelles and the Black Sea.

The Allies landed on the peninsula on 25-26 April 1915; the 29th Division at Cape Helles in the south and the Australian and New Zealand Corps north of Gaba Tepe on the west coast, an area soon known as Anzac.

At Helles, the 29th Division landed troops at 'S,' 'V,' 'W,' 'X' and 'Y' Beaches, five small coves at or near the southern end of the peninsula. The landing at 'Y' Beach (Gurkha Bluffs) was carried out by the 1st King's Own Scottish Borderers and the Plymouth Battalion of the Royal Naval Division, but these troops were forced to re-embark on the following day. The 2nd Royal Fusiliers landed at 'X' Beach, followed by the rest of the 87th Brigade. Under very severe fire, the 1st Lancashire Fusiliers landed on 'W' Beach and cut their way through wire entanglements and trenches to the edge of the cliff. They and the other battalions of the 88th Brigade established themselves on the hills of Tekke Burnu and Helles Burnu. The beach became known as Lancashire Landing.

The greater part of the cemetery (Rows A to J and part of Row L) was made between the landing in April 1915 and the evacuation of the peninsula in January 1916. Row I contains the graves of over 80 men of the 1st Lancashire Fusiliers who died in the first two days following the landing. The 97 graves in Row K and graves 31 to 83 in Row L were brought in after the Armistice from the following Aegean islands cemeteries:-

From CWGC website:

HOWARTH, SAMUEL

Rank:Gunner
Service No:29843
Date of Death:14/07/1915
Regiment/Service:Royal Field Artillery 29th Div. Ammunition Col. Grave Reference:D. 51.
Cemetery:LANCASHIRE LANDING CEMETERY
Additional Information:Son of Mr. and Mrs. A. Howarth, of Eccles, Manchester; husband of Maggie Matthews (formerly Howarth), of 13, Jones St., Bloom St., Salford, Manchester. Served in the South African Campaign.

Soldiers died in the Great War 1914-1919 Transcription

First name(s)
SAM

Last name
HOWARTH

Service number
29843

Rank
GUNNER

Regiment
Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery

Battalion
-

Birth place
MANCHESTER, LANCS

Residence
-

Enlistment place
PRESTON, LANCS

Death year
1915

Death day
14

Death month
7

Cause of death
Killed in action

Death place
Gallipoli

Theatre of war
Balkan Theatre

Supplementary Notes
-

Category
Military, armed forces & conflict

Record collection
First World War

Collections from
Great Britain

Please read my first entry

Sorry that address was Birch Street and the info was from The National Roll of the Great War.

E. Howarth
MILITARY DATE: Nov 1915
RESIDENCE YEAR: Abt 1914
RESIDENCE PLACE: 24, Birch Street, Moss Side, Manchester, England
RANK: Private
REGIMENT: Lancashire Fusiliers
SECTION: Section XI, Manchester

No service record showing for Ernest on Ancestry but there is this medal card.

Ernest Samuel Howarth
MILITARY YEAR: 1914-1920
RANK: Private
MEDAL AWARDED: British War Medal and Victory Medal
REGIMENT OR CORPS: Labour Corps
REGIMENTAL NUMBER: 462965
PREVIOUS UNITS:


There is also a bit about E. Howarth wounded in action at The Somme and invalided home. When he had recover sufficiently, he spent the remainder of the war doing agricultural work in Oxford. The address given for him is Birch Road, Moss-side, Manchester.

Just wondering if that is your Ernest Samuel and his life was shorten due to wartime injuries?

Ada is widowed in 1911 but does state 8 children born, 7 living and one had died.

Ada Howarth
AGE IN 1911: 49
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1862
RELATION TO HEAD: Head
GENDER: Female
BIRTH PLACE: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: South Manchester
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS: 260 Great Western St Moss Side Manchester
MARITAL STATUS: Widowed
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
REGISTRATION DISTRICT NUMBER: 464
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Didsbury
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 43
PIECE: 23700
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Ada Howarth 49
Joseph Oscar Howarth 22
Rose Howarth 20
Laurence Howarth 19
Ada Howarth 15
John Mary Howarth 13
Edna V Howarth 11
Alice Maud 40
Thomas Aring 22

Above Ernest in 1901

Ernest S Howarth
AGE: 15
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1886
RELATION TO HEAD: Son
GENDER: Male
FATHER: Joseph Howarth
MOTHER: Ada Howarth
BIRTH PLACE: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Moss Side
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: Moss Side St James
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION:

CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:

EDUCATION:

EMPLOYMENT STATUS:

View image
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Hulme
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 82
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 3711
FOLIO: 78
PAGE NUMBER: 8
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 46
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Joseph Howarth 38
Ada Howarth 39
Ernest S Howarth 15
Joseph O Howarth 12
Rose Howarth 10
Laurence Howarth 7
Ada Howarth 5
John H Howarth 3
Edna V Howarth 1
Laura Burgess 32
Rose Burgess 29

A possibility???

There is this birth reg:



Births Jun 1885 (>99%)
Howarth Ernest Samuel Chorlton 8c 889

and this death reg:

Deaths Sep 1931 (>99%)
Howarth Ernest S 46 Manchester S. 8d

which would fit if Ernest was sometimes known as Sam. (The death in 1931 would fit with the deceased father Ernest on the marriage cert in 1939)

Sorry for the delay

Thank you all for your input I'll have to digest this info 2 - 1911 censuses ?
I've asked questions but they don't seem to know ant more
I was like this when I started my own tree but then things you find out triggers a memory I'm hoping this will do the same

Thank you
Sylvia

John Byrne married Elizabeth Crook 20th Oct 1884 at ST Alexanders Church West Derby.

He signed his name and Elilzabeth made her mark X

His address 12 Emily St Bootle

His father John Byrne deceased Farrier

Her address 29 Lyons St Bootle

Her father John Crook deceased Engine Driver

Witnesses James O'Keeffe and Mary O'Brian

I too have just started to do an in-law tree and I have a word of advice ... ask questions. I was given very minimal info and started to dig, spent a lot of time digging and even sent for one or two certificates, then I hit a bit of a brick wall. I asked about it and the in-laws came up with a whole pile of info that I'd spent hours searching for. Prod them for every bit of info you can - save yourself time and money. Now Iknow to ask questions before I delve too deep.

1891

Name: Margaret Ann Byrne
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Byrne
Mother's name: Baby Byrne
Gender: Female
Where born: Bootle, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Bootle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Bootle
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2973
Folio: 53
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
John Byrne 29 born Ireland Coal Heaver
Baby Byrne 29 says Betsy****************born Bootle Lancs
Margaret Ann Byrne 1
Eliza Hall 50
John Stanton 34 Barber boarder******************
Patrick McCormick 28

Name: Maggie Byrne
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Conway
Civil Parish: Bootle cum Linacre
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 80 Irlam Rd Bootle
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Cop Winder
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Bootle
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 22422
Household Members:
Name Age
Besty Byrne 49 Widow
Maggie Byrne 21
Johanna Byrne 18
John Stanton 54 Barber boarder *********************
Thomas Byrne 54
Annie Byrne 47
Katie Byrne 5
Lennard Byrne 14
Thomas Conndley 20

could these be the chidren of james and mary

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Lee Ivy Peacock Salford 8d 237
Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
Lee Doris Peacock W.Derby 8b 934
Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Lee Louise Peacock W.Derby 8b 1069
Births Mar 1926 (>99%)
Lee Olive Peacock W. Derby 8b 1073
Births Jun 1931 (>99%)
Lee Violet E Peacock W.Derby 8b 1101

That could be their was some thing mentioned about the father dying
but I thought it was Sam Jnr I think I've got my wires crossed

I'll take it that this certificate I've got is right but Ernest is Sam