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Hello
I have a relative Thomas Thompson b.1853 who was married to Sarah Margaret Dickinson on 17 April 1881, which was a couple of weeks after the 1881 census. On the marriage certificate he puts his address as 31 West Street, Lees (Leesfield), Lancashire, England and his occupation as a cotton carder. His father John Thompson is a ships carpenter but I don't know if he was living at the time of the marriage.

I cannot find Thomas Thompson on the 1881 census or on earlier censuses using Ancestry. Can anyone please search the address in 1881 and let me know who was living there? Or if you can find anything else about him before 1881. on the next censuses he is born in Oldham or Maryport Cumbria or Liverpool. I most inclined to believe the Liverpool as he wrote it and because of his father's occupation.

His wife to be, Sarah Margaret Dickinson (nee Dransfield) is at the given address Lane Head, Lees but he isn't their either.

Thanking you in advance
Regards
David

1881

Edward Code Head Married Male 39 1842 Skip Maker Ireland
Martha Code Wife Married Female 39 1842 Cook (Domestic) Ireland
Julia Code Mother Widow Female 70 1811 ((Cook Domestic)) Ireland
Anthony Whitestead Lodger Single Male 24 1857 Grinder Cotton Ireland
Thomas Thompson Lodger Single Male 28 1853 Carder Cotton Maryport, Cumberland

House number 31
Street West Street
Town -
Parish Ashton under Lyne
County Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Ashton under Lyne
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 4034
Folio 83
Page 16
Record set 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

1881 census 31 West Street



Edward Code Head Married Male 39 1842 Skip Maker Ireland
Martha Code Wife Married Female 39 1842 Cook (Domestic) Ireland
Julia Code Mother Widow Female 70 1811 ((Cook Domestic)) Ireland
Anthony Whitestead Lodger Single Male 24 1857 Grinder Cotton Ireland
Thomas Thompson Lodger Single Male 28 1853 Carder Cotton Maryport, Cumberland, England

Hello Gritty and Pam
Thanks very much for you help, this is definitely him.
All I have to do know is find him on previous census returns.
Cheers
David :-)

1871 is free on familysearch site

Who witnessed the marriage? Any clues there?

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Thomas B Thompson
England and Wales Census, 1871
Name: Thomas B Thompson
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 18
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Dacre, Cumberland
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Penrith
Sub-District: Penrith
Parish: Stainton
County: Cumberland
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Thompson Self M 55 Dacre, Cumberland
Mary A Thompson Wife F 45 Hasket, Cumberland
Thomas B Thompson Son M 18 Dacre, Cumberland
Annie B Thompson Daughter F 17 Dacre, Cumberland
Margaret Thompson Sister F 53 Dacre, Cumberland
Sarah Todd Visitor Relation F 45 Whitehaven, Cumberland
John V Todd Son Of Sarah Todd M 14 Liverpool, West Derby

That one was still with family in 1881

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Keld Head, Dacre, Penrith, Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Thompson Head Married Male 65 1816 Yeoman Dacre, Cumberland, England Transcription
Mary A Thompson Wife Married Female 56 1825 - Cumberland, England Transcription
Thomas B Thompson Son Single Male 28 1853 Yeomans Son Dacre, Cumberland, England Transcription
Mary A Ridley Servant Single Female 18 1863 General Servant Domestic Dacre, Cumberland, England Transcription
Sarah Todd Lodger Widow Female 56 1825 Annuitant Cumberland, England Transcription

I shouldn't discount Maryport - if you google you will see that it was an important port during Georgian and Victorian times, so his father could well have been employed there as a Ship's Carpenter.

???1851 - so before Thomas born but here is a John Thompson, Ship's Carpenter (b Maryport)

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
George Street, Cockermouth, Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Thompson Head Married Male 35 1816 Ship Carpenter Journeyman Maryport, Cumberland, England
Fanny Thompson Wife Married Female 36 1815 - Maryport, Cumberland, England
John Thompson Son - Male 2 1849 - Maryport, Cumberland, England
Mary J Thompson Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Maryport, Cumberland, England
John Nattras Visitor Unmarried Male 22 1829 Primitive Methodist Minister ? Stanhope, Durham, England

Possibly not, as here is that family in 1861, although of course Thomas might have been elsewhere

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
48, Cleveland Street, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Thompson Head Married Male 41 1820 Shipwrights Maryport, Cumberland, England
Fanny Thompson Wife Married Female 46 1815 - Cumberland, England
John Thompson Son - Male - - Scholar Maryport, Cumberland, England
Mary J Thompson Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Maryport, Cumberland, England
Martha A Thompson Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Workington, Cumberland, England
George Wilson Visitor Married Male 24 1837 Clerk Dock Works Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Margaret Wilson Visitor Unmarried Female 19 1842 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Samuel Woorell Lodger Married Male 24 1837 Time Keeper Dock Frodsham, Cheshire, England
William Goodman Lodger Unmarried Male 18 1843 Labourer Dock Kent, England

?? Is this the 1911 census you are looking at for Thomas b Liverpool

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
13 Sussex Street Oldham Lancaster, Oldham, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Thomas Thompson Head Married Male 59 1852 Liverpool Lancs Inn Keeper
Sarah Marget Thompson Wife Married Female 57 1854 Lancs Ashton under Lyne -

Married 29 years no children

-------------------------------------------------
or this in 1901 where Thomas is b Maryport and Sarah in Lees (not Leeds) which would tie with her address on marriage

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
56, Savoy Street, Oldham, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Thompson Head Married Male 48 1853 Living On Own Means Maryport, Cumberland,
Sarah M Thompson Wife Married Female 48 1853 - Leeds, Lancashire,
George H Thompson Son Single Male 19 1882 Cotton Mill Book Keeper Lees, Lancashire,
Elizabeth H Thompson Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Cotton Reeler Lees, Lancashire,
Harold Thompson Son - Male 15 1886 Tailors Shop Assistant Lees, Lancashire,

---------------------------------
These are not the same family unless by 1911, they have disowned their children

Hi Greyghost and Jacqueline
Sorry for being offline for most of yesterday.

Thank you very much indeed for all your help in finding my relatives. I was despairing with my efforts on Ancestry as I couldn't get back beyond 1881 with any certainty.

You have certainly pin pointed Thomas and his family.
The 1911 entry is now rather puzzling as Thomas does't have any children and he says he was born in Liverpool. My guess now is that this isn't him and that my Thompsons died before the 1911 census, I thought it was him because of his occupation Inn keeper in 1911 and on his daughter's wedding in 1903 was a publican.

Could I ask what sites do you use for your research, perhaps I should broaden my searches

Thanks again
David :-)

There is no marriage on freebmd which fits the criteria as per 1911 census, apart from the 1881 one in Ashton district between Thomas and Sarah (Dickinson)

Perhaps they misunderstood the question about children?

Hi Jacqueline
Thomas did marry Sarah Anne (Dickinson) and I could find anything which matched the 1911 census. I did have a look for deaths of them both but my search wasn't very helpful. perhaps I should write to Oldham FHS and ask about MI's.

I was looking for a marriage cert/banns of his son George Herbert Thompson to see if Thomas was still alive in 1906. I found the following but can't find it on Ancestry.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)
Austerberry Rachel Harriet Oldham 8d 1365
Griffiths David Oldham 8d 1365
PARKER Sarah Annie Oldham 8d 1365
Thompson George Herbert Oldham 8d 1365

Need to look at other sites

Thanks again for your help.

This would look to be the 1911 census to go with that marriage

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
77 Retford Street Oldham, Oldham, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
George Herbert Thompson Head Married Male 29 1882 Lancs Lees Yarn Tester
Sarah Annie Thompson Wife Married Female 35 1876 Lancs Oldham Forewoman Yarn Winding
Albert Edward Shaw Boarder Single Male 24 1887 Lancs Castleton Assistant Secretary

Registration district Oldham
Registration district number 469
Subdistrict Oldham Central
Subdistrict number 2
Enumeration district 25
Piece number 24495
Piece Number Suffix -
Schedule number 437

Married 4 years no children

----------------------------------------
and possibly Sarah Annie in1901 but you would need the marriage certificate to see her father's details
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
80, Lord Street, Oldham, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Parker Head Married Male 49 1852 Shoemaker Wakefield, Yorkshire, England
Agnes Parker Wife Married Female 48 1853 - Ashton, Lancashire, England
William H Parker Son Single Male 27 1874 Brass Turner Oldham, Lancashire, England
Sarah A Parker Daughter Single Female 25 1876 Cotton Winder Oldham, Lancashire, England
Elizb Parker Daughter Single Female 23 1878 Cotton Winder Oldham, Lancashire, England
Fred B Parker Son Single Male 20 1881 Brass Turner Oldham, Lancashire, England
Harry B Parker Son Single Male 18 1883 App Brass Finisher Oldham, Lancashire, England
John Parker Son - Male 15 1886 App Brass Finisher Oldham, Lancashire, England
Jennie Parker Daughter - Female 13 1888 - Oldham, Lancashire, England
Ena Parker Daughter - Female 11 1890 - Oldham, Lancashire, England
Clara Parker Daughter - Female 7 1894 - Oldham, Lancashire, England

Like the possibility of the couple not understanding the question on the 1911 census return form, it was also misunderstood when the happy couple were asked for father's details. If not declared deceased it doesn't necessarily mean they are still alive.

Hi

I have been looking at the Parish record in 1906 to see if the marriage is there on Ancestry but it isn't.

The most I can find - from http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Marriage Indexes
Surname Forename(s) Spouse's Surname Spouse's Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office
THOMPSON George H PARKER Sarah A 1906 Oldham Register Office or Registrar Attended
Region Registers At Reference Order Online
Lancashire Oldham RM/115/169 N/A

So Registry Office or non-conformist/RC where the Registrar had to attend the service.

Another good site for Lancashire records is www.lan-opc.org.uk but i can see nothing there as it is purely Parish records.

Hi
Just had a look at the www.lan-opc.org.uk site and it is amazing the number of records and all searchable.

As you mentioned earlier the marriage certificate may not tell me anything about Thomas.

I have been delving back a bit further and found this record, I think it is the marriage of John the ship's carpenter.
Name: John Thompson
Spouse's Name: Fanny Dorat
Event Date: 09 Jun 1846
Event Place: Cross-Canonby, Cumberland, England
Father's Name: John Thompson
Spouse's Father's Name: John Dorat
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I03796-4 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1472080

Don't forget, you haven't proved that that John is the father of Thomas as not found on census together.

Yes, you are correct I have just checked. That's brought me down with a bump!

I have looked at some trees on Ancestry with Fanny and John but none contain a Thomas. A bit more work to be undertaker here.

I'm away this weekend but hopefully I will resume when I get time next week.

Thanks again for your help to date.