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I wonder if anyone could give me any more information on a John Davies born 1855 Liverpool and showing as residing in Dartmoor Prison on the 1881 census.

I am trying to find out whether he is the father of my grandfather Robert Davies born 1881. He lists his father John Davies as deceased on his marriage certificate of 1889 and father's occupation was hawker.

Also would be great to find out what John Davies may have been committed to Dartmoor prison for.

Many Thanks

Hello and welcome to the boards

??????????

Name: Robert Davies
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 27 Apr 1881
Christening Place: St. Luke, Preston, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: John Davies
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01834-6 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1471019 , Reference ID: item 33 p 125

Name: Robert Davies
Age (Original): 0
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1881
Birthplace: Preston, Lancashire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Marital Status: Single
Address: 37 Young St
Event Place: Preston, Lancashire, England
Record Type: Household
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 4231 / 37
Page Number: 22
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Davies Head M 32 Preston, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Davies Wife F 37 Church, Lancashire, England
Margaret A Davies Daughter F 13 Preston, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth A Davies Daughter F 11 Preston, Lancashire, England
Mary Davies Daughter F 6 Preston, Lancashire, England
William Davies Son M 3 Preston, Lancashire, England
Robert Davies Son M 0 Preston, Lancashire, England

???????????

Name: John Davies
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 04 Feb 1855
Christening Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: James Davies
Mother's Name: Catherine
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I05442-4 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1656426 , Reference ID: item 3 p 302

hmmm - so many John Davies' in Liverpool

AnnCardiff,

thank you and yes it's like looking for a needle in a haystack at the moment. It doesn't help that Robert Davies states on the marriage certificate that his age is greater than it really was to get around marrying under the age of 21 without parental consent and says that he was born in Torquay (where there are no records of his birth at all).

Torquay could be right as Dartmoor is in Devon

????????????

Name: Robert Davies
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1967
Registration District: Exeter
County: Devon
Event Place: Exeter, Devon, England
Age (available after 1866): 86
Birth Year (Estimated): 1881
Volume: 7A
Page: 382
Line Number: 171

If your Grandfather was born in 1881 he surely didn't marry in 1889. Can you clarify the years please?

Who did he marry please and where? Where did you find the information that he was born in Torquay please?

Is this your Grandfather please?

1911

Name: Robert Davies
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 18 Gough St Cardiff
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 12
Estimated Marriage Year: 1899
Occupation: Wood Lawyer <<Wood Sawyer on image
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration District Number: 588
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 153
Piece: 32117
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Davies 30
Mary Davies 29
Agnes Davies 10
Thomas Davies 5
John Davies 1

Wondering about this one?

1881

Name: Robert Davis
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relationship to Head: Grandson
Mother: Elizabeth Davis
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Exeter St Mary Steps
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: 6 Haris Bldgs Commercial Road
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2154
Folio: 47
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Bastin 57
Rosina Bastin 56
Sarah J. Bastin 10
Elizabeth Davis 25 Married, Rag Sorter
Bessy Davis 4
Robert Davis 3

Elizabeth Bastin
Registration Year: 1876
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Exeter
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 187

Records on Page:
Name
Elizabeth Bastin
John Davis
Tryphena Henson
Henry Roberts

For our ref.

John Davies
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relationship to Head: Prisoner
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Lidford
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: "Her Majesty Convict Prison"Princetown
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Porter & Hawker
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub registration district: Tavistock
ED, institution, or vessel: Her Majestys Convict Prison
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2219
Folio: 114
Page Number: 24

Home Office: Calendar of prisons

First name(s) John

Last name Davies

Age 23

Occupation Porter

Birth year 1854

Year 1877

Session commencing day 25
Session commencing month May

Place Lancashire

Court Liverpool

Victim's first name(s)/alias Joseph
Victim's last name Nie- Mann

Source A Calendar Of Prisoners Tried At The General Quarter Sessions Of The Peace

Series HO140
Piece number 38
Folio number -
Page number -

Record set Crime, Prisons & Punishment
Category Institutions & organisations
Record collection Prison registers
Collections from Great Britain

Tried on 28th May 1877 - Larceny from the person after a previous conviction (23rd August 1876 - stealing a watch) -

Sentenced to 10 years imprisonment

I have just read a newspaper article in the Liverpool Mercury dated 29 May 1877.
John Davies 23 a porter was charged with Catherine Tunsey 22 no occupation, Thomas Williams 22, James Burke 23 and Thomas Riley 22 all Labourers of robbing a German Emigrant Joseph Niemann of his purse containing 12 thalers and other goods, the money and property of Joseph Niemann. However, it states that John Davies was aquitted but all the othes were sentenced to 10 years as they had had previous convictions.

So, sadly, it looks like this is possibly not the John Davies we are looking for

Found these but don't know if they are connected!! ??

????
Baptism: 10 Jan 1883 St Jude the Apostle, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Robert Davies - [Child] of John Davies & Mary
Abode: 4 house 5 Court Curzon Street
Occupation: Porter
Baptised by: Ernest J. A. FitzRoy
Register: Baptisms 1880 - 1891, Page 23, Entry 183
Source: LDS Film 1545846



Baptism: 10 Jan 1883 St Jude the Apostle, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Davies - [Child] of John Davies & Mary
Abode: 4 house 5 Court Curzon Street
Occupation: Porter
Baptised by: Ernest J. A. FitzRoy
Register: Baptisms 1880 - 1891, Page 23, Entry 184
Source: LDS Film 1545846


Baptism: 16 Sep 1885 St Jude the Apostle, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Samuel Davies - [Child] of John Davies & Mary
Abode: 3 Low Wood Street
Occupation: Porter
Baptised by: W. J. Adams
Register: Baptisms 1880 - 1891, Page 48, Entry 382
Source: LDS Film 1545846

Dea Xxx

Wow - thankyou all. Much to be looking through and digesting.

Rootgatherer apologies for not coming back to you sooner but I need to ask my daughter to assist with the boards so have to wait until she is free to post for me.

Re Robert Davies he married Mary Carpenter in Exeter in 1899 (NOT 1889 sorry typo).

The information that he was born in Torquay is shown on the 1911 census (Cardiff 18 Gough Street) we believe this is him as details of their children (names, ages and places of birth match those we know about bar one John, who we believe may have died early).

Once again many, many thanks for all the help being new to this.

This looks like daughter Agnes's birth.

Agnes Davis
REGISTRATION YEAR: 1901
REGISTRATION QUARTER: Jul-Aug-Sep
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Exeter
INFERRED COUNTY: Devon
VOLUME: 5b
PAGE: 71


Not seeing Robert and Mary in 1901 yet.

The Robert who is with mother Elizabeth in 1891 doesn't seem to be with her in 1901.

I don't know if other helpers would agree but with nothing else obvious, I would be tempted to buy Elizabeth Bastin's marriage certificate to checkout the age and occupation of the John Davis that she married.