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Hello.

I was hoping someone might be able to help me find a marriage / birth of my great great grand father.. and any further back..

Charles Smith
Born 1838 (Malvern, Worcestershire)
Its around this date and place.

I have traced Charles Smith back to 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871 census.

In 1881 on the census he appears living and married:

Masbro Road, Hammersmith, Fulham.
Charles Smith, Born 1838, age 43, from Worcestershire, Malvern.
Maria (wife), Born 1843, age 38, from Woodditton.
Ellen, (daughter) Born 1868, age 13, from Paddington.
William, (son) Born 1869, age 12, from Kensington.
Arthur, (son) Born 1876, age 5, from Hammersmith.
Henry, (son) Born 1880 , age 1, from Hammersmith.


In 1871 on the census he appears living and married:

Denmark Terrace, Hammersmith, Chealsea.
Charles Smith, Born 1839, age 32, from worcestershire, Malvern.
Maria (wife), Born 1840, age 31, from Newmarket.
William, (son) Born 1869, age 2, from Middlesex.
Henry, (son) Born 18.. , age 3?, from Middlesex.


I don't have any further info, Maria appears to come from Woodditton. And weirdly on the 1881 census, there is a servant living with my GGGrandfather named Eliza Stubbings from Woodditton. I do wonder whether that is a family member of my GGGrandmother..?


Then I hit a bit of a dead end..

If I can find his marriage or birth out that would be amazing, and help me find out more..

In the 1851 Census there is a Charles Smith living in (Upton Upon Severn)Great Malvern area, with a lot of family.. could this be my relatives?

Can anyone help me? (thanks nick)

This may be the son Arthur's batism, birth date on it is 12 Nov 1875. Does father's occupation match with the census you have?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Charles Arthur Edward Smith
Name: Charles Arthur Edward Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1879
Father's Name: Charles Smith <<<< bricklayer
Mother's name: Maria Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Register Type: Parish Registers

Baptised same day born June 26th 1879

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Henry James Smith
Name: Henry James Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1879
Father's Name: Charles Smith
Mother's name: Maria Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Register Type: Parish Registers

If these are the two boys, it might help to pinpoint their birth reg which would give mother's maiden name to confirm marriage.

this looks to be two sons

Name: Charles Arthur Edward Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1879
Father's Name: Charles Smith occ bricklayer
Mother's name: Maria Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Register Type: Parish Registers

born Nov 12 1875

baptised the same day

Henry James born 26th June1879

home address 41 Masbro Road (writing difficult to read)

so Births Sep 1879
Smith Henry James Fulham 1a 218

Birth

Dec 1875
SMITH Charles Arthur E Fulham 1a 233

Charles Smith (Born. 1836C)
Was a bricklayer I think.

Had son's: James, Charles A E, Henry, Eliza, William. (Possible Ellen as well?)

My great grandfather is:
Charles Arthur E Smith.
Born 1876 (Give or take 1yr)
He was a bricklayer.
I actually thought I found him baptised Arthur Henry, in woodditton?
Abode: Hammersmith. But I could be very wrong :-S
I think he was born 1875 in Fulham London.
Charles Arthur E Smith, married in 1905 in Fulham too.


thanks nick

I have given his birth ref above

the birth cert will give his mmn so you can then look for the parents marriage

If you get his birth cert it will give you mother's maiden name

Ellen in 1871 with her grandparents Stubbings

1871 England Census about Ellen Smith
Name: Ellen Smith
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Wood Ditton
Ecclesiastical parish: Wood Ditton
Town: Wood Ditton
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England
Registration district: Newmarket
Sub-registration district: Cheveley
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 139
Piece: 1595
Folio: 85
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
James Stubbings 61
Mary Stubbings 57
Alice Francis Stubbings 24
Harry Stubbings 14
Ellen Smith 3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
James B Stubbings 1
Agnes Ada Godard 4 Months

1861 England Census about James Stubbings
Name: James Stubbings
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Stubbings
Gender: Male
Where born: Dullingham, Cambridgeshire, England
Civil Parish: Wood Ditton
Ecclesiastical parish: Ely
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Newmarket
Sub-registration district: Cheveley
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 147
Piece: 1031
Folio: 168
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
James Stubbings 50
Mary Stubbings 45
Mary Ann Stubbings 23
John Stubbings 20
Alice Stubbings 14
James Stubbings 11
Susannah Stubbings 9
Adeliza Stubbings 6
Harry Stubbings 3

Maria

.

1851 England Census about Maria Stubbins
Name: Maria Stubbins
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Stubbins
Mother's name: Mary Stubbins
Gender: Female
Where born: Woodditton, Cambridgeshire, England
Civil Parish: Woodditton
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Newmarket
Sub-registration district: Cheveley
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 112
Piece: 1762
Folio: 111
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
James Stubbins 37
Mary Stubbins 57
William Stubbins 16
Mary Ann Stubbins 13
John Stubbins 10
Maria Stubbins 8 <<<<<<<<<<
Sarah Stubbins 6
Alice Stubbins 4
James Stubbins 1

Can't see the marriage though?

Thanks.

I have ordered the birth certificate and marriage certificate of Charles Arthur E Smith, so hopefully that will give me some more info..

Hopefully that will let me follow the trail back to where Charles Smith was born and his family around Worcestershire..

I've found Maria Stubbings on 1861 census:
High Street, Newmarket, Ely, St Mary, Cambridgeshire.
As a servant for George B Mead. Born 1832.

So she must be married between 1861-1868 to Charles Smith

Cambridgeshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)
First Name MARIA
Last Name STUBBINGS
Year Of Birth 1842
Baptism year 1842
Baptism date 29 May 1842
Abode otp
Place WOOD DITTON
Mother's Given Name Mary Anne
Father's First Name James
Father occupation lab
County Cambridgeshire
Record set Cambridgeshire Baptisms

(also Adeliza (Eliza 1881?) Baptism 4 March 1855 Wood Ditton)

Chris :)

(not seeing Marriage, Cambridgeshire Marriage Index cd has Banns/Marriage, Wood Ditton 1867, which go with below)


Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)

DEAN Hannah Newmarket 3b 1221
Pettit Samuel Newmarket 3b 1221
STARLING Samuel Newmarket 3b 1221
STUBBINGS Mary Ann Newmarket 3b 1221

(looking on 1871 a possible Samuel and Hannah at Stetchworth which is near Newmarket, and a Samuel and Mary A Starling at Ashley, near Newmarket!)

Chris :)

edits

(below Find My Past)

Cambridgeshire Banns Transcription
First name(s) Mary Ann
Last name Stubbings
Banns year 1867
Banns date 24 Nov 1867
Spouse's first name(s) Samuel
Spouse's last name Starling
Place Wood Ditton
Groom's marital condition bac
Groom's residence otp
Bride's marital condition sp
Bride's residence otp
County Cambridgeshire

(ah!, she was elder Daughter of James)


Baptism (Find My Past)
First Name MARY ANN
Last Name STUBBINGS
Year Of Birth 1837
Baptism year 1837
Baptism date 24 Sep 1837
Abode otp
Place WOOD DITTON
Mother's Given Name Mary
Father's First Name James
Father occupation lab

(could see below, and noticed same address as James 1861, explains it now!)


Baptism
First Name JOHN EDWARD STARLING
Last Name STUBBINGS
Year Of Birth 1863
Baptism year 1863
Baptism date 15 Nov 1863
Abode of Saxon St
Place WOOD DITTON
Mother's Given Name Mary Ann
Father's First Name [blank]
Father occupation single woman


1871 (Find My Past)
Samuel Starling Head - Male 37 1834 - Cambridgeshire, England
Mary Ann Starling Wife - Female 33 1838 - Cambridgeshire, England
John Edward Starling Son - Male 7 1864 - Cambridgeshire, England
Kate Starling Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Cambridgeshire, England
Alice Starling Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Cambridgeshire, England
Parish Ashley
County Cambridgeshire
Registration district Newmarket
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 1599
Folio 88
Page 3

(but, no help with your Maria Marriage though!)

I might be missing something here, but how do we know that Maria Smith is née Stubbings?
In 1871 Charles Smith is living with his wife so she can't be the same one living with Samuel Starling :-S

(sorry Bev, was editing with above!)

Chris :)

(just seen below)

Cambridgeshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)
First Name ARTHUR HENRY
Last Name SMITH
Year Of Birth 1875
Baptism year 1875
Baptism date 16 Oct 1875
Abode of Hammersmith
Place WOOD DITTON
Mother's Given Name Maria
Father's First Name Charles
Father occupation bricklayer


First Name SARAH ELLEN
Last Name SMITH
Year Of Birth 1867
Baptism year 1867
Baptism date 18 Aug 1867
Abode of London
Place WOOD DITTON
Mother's Given Name Maria
Father's First Name Charles
Father occupation builder


Births Jun 1867 (>99%)

Stubbings Sarah Ellen Marylebone 1a 511

(a possible?)

Hi Beverley.

As I understand in 1871, Mary Ann, is Maria's sister.
In 1871 Maria is living with Charles in Hammersmith, on Denmark Terrace. As Maria Smith.
In 1861 Maria is living in Ely, Cambridgeshire. As Maria Stubbings.

Thanks Chris + everyone for all the children info, its great finding all this info :)

I think I have followed Charles Smith back to Malvern, born in Malvern area, I think Bosbury, born in 1838.

In the 1851 Census there is a Charles Smith living in (Upton Upon Severn)Great Malvern area, and again in 1861 on the census..
His father was called John Smith, married to Anne Smith. Am I following this info back right? :-S

thanks everyone :)

I know you have this, but it helps me to see it


1881 Census

Name: Eliza Stubbings
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relationship to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Woodditton, Cambridgeshire, England
Civil Parish: Hammersmith
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 41 Masboro Rd

Occupation: Servant
Registration district: Fulham
Sub registration district: St Paul Hammersmith
ED, institution, or vessel: 21

Piece: 59
Folio: 6
Page Number: 8

Charles Smith 43
Maria Smith 38
Ellen Smith 13
William Smith 12
Arthur Smith 5
Henry Smith 1
Eliza Stubbings 26


Note that Eliza Stubbings is actually a VISITOR to the house. Her occupation is shown as Servant, but I do not think that she is their Servant




Are you / we assuming that Eliza Stubbings age 26 (b.ca 1855, Woodditton) on the 1881 Census is the same as Adeliza Stubbings on the 1861 Census?


1861 Census

Name: Adeliza Stubbings
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Stubbings
Mother's name: Mary Stubbings
Gender: Female
Where born: Wood Ditton, Cambridgeshire, England
Civil Parish: Wood Ditton
Ecclesiastical parish: Ely
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England

Registration district: Newmarket
Sub-registration district: Cheveley
ED, institution, or vessel: 9

Household schedule number: 147
Piece: 1031
Folio: 168
Page Number: 30

James Stubbings 50
Mary Stubbings 45
Mary Ann Stubbings 23
John Stubbings 20
Alice Stubbings 14
James Stubbings 11
Susannah Stubbings 9
Adeliza Stubbings 6
Harry Stubbings 3

Is it at all possible that Charles and Maria did not in fact marry????



I have found no records of them marrying at all ................. I used freebmd, and did not enter years


there is nothing!



This could mean that one or both were married to someone else before they got together ............... or they just did not bother getting married :-)