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Nicholas
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15 Nov 2014 21:14 |
Hello.
I was hoping someone might be able to help me find a marriage / birth of my great great grand father.. and any further back..
Charles Smith Born 1838 (Malvern, Worcestershire) Its around this date and place.
I have traced Charles Smith back to 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871 census.
In 1881 on the census he appears living and married:
Masbro Road, Hammersmith, Fulham. Charles Smith, Born 1838, age 43, from Worcestershire, Malvern. Maria (wife), Born 1843, age 38, from Woodditton. Ellen, (daughter) Born 1868, age 13, from Paddington. William, (son) Born 1869, age 12, from Kensington. Arthur, (son) Born 1876, age 5, from Hammersmith. Henry, (son) Born 1880 , age 1, from Hammersmith.
In 1871 on the census he appears living and married:
Denmark Terrace, Hammersmith, Chealsea. Charles Smith, Born 1839, age 32, from worcestershire, Malvern. Maria (wife), Born 1840, age 31, from Newmarket. William, (son) Born 1869, age 2, from Middlesex. Henry, (son) Born 18.. , age 3?, from Middlesex.
I don't have any further info, Maria appears to come from Woodditton. And weirdly on the 1881 census, there is a servant living with my GGGrandfather named Eliza Stubbings from Woodditton. I do wonder whether that is a family member of my GGGrandmother..?
Then I hit a bit of a dead end..
If I can find his marriage or birth out that would be amazing, and help me find out more..
In the 1851 Census there is a Charles Smith living in (Upton Upon Severn)Great Malvern area, with a lot of family.. could this be my relatives?
Can anyone help me? (thanks nick)
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 21:44 |
This may be the son Arthur's batism, birth date on it is 12 Nov 1875. Does father's occupation match with the census you have?
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Charles Arthur Edward Smith Name: Charles Arthur Edward Smith Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1879 Father's Name: Charles Smith <<<< bricklayer Mother's name: Maria Smith Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham Register Type: Parish Registers
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 21:47 |
Baptised same day born June 26th 1879
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Henry James Smith Name: Henry James Smith Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1879 Father's Name: Charles Smith Mother's name: Maria Smith Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham Register Type: Parish Registers
If these are the two boys, it might help to pinpoint their birth reg which would give mother's maiden name to confirm marriage.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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15 Nov 2014 21:55 |
this looks to be two sons
Name: Charles Arthur Edward Smith Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1879 Father's Name: Charles Smith occ bricklayer Mother's name: Maria Smith Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham Register Type: Parish Registers
born Nov 12 1875
baptised the same day
Henry James born 26th June1879
home address 41 Masbro Road (writing difficult to read)
so Births Sep 1879 Smith Henry James Fulham 1a 218
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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15 Nov 2014 22:00 |
Birth
Dec 1875 SMITH Charles Arthur E Fulham 1a 233
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Nicholas
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15 Nov 2014 22:06 |
Charles Smith (Born. 1836C) Was a bricklayer I think.
Had son's: James, Charles A E, Henry, Eliza, William. (Possible Ellen as well?)
My great grandfather is: Charles Arthur E Smith. Born 1876 (Give or take 1yr) He was a bricklayer. I actually thought I found him baptised Arthur Henry, in woodditton? Abode: Hammersmith. But I could be very wrong :-S I think he was born 1875 in Fulham London. Charles Arthur E Smith, married in 1905 in Fulham too.
thanks nick
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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15 Nov 2014 22:13 |
I have given his birth ref above
the birth cert will give his mmn so you can then look for the parents marriage
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 22:14 |
If you get his birth cert it will give you mother's maiden name
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 22:16 |
Ellen in 1871 with her grandparents Stubbings
1871 England Census about Ellen Smith Name: Ellen Smith Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: London, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: Wood Ditton Ecclesiastical parish: Wood Ditton Town: Wood Ditton County/Island: Cambridgeshire Country: England Registration district: Newmarket Sub-registration district: Cheveley ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 139 Piece: 1595 Folio: 85 Page Number: 28 Household Members: Name Age James Stubbings 61 Mary Stubbings 57 Alice Francis Stubbings 24 Harry Stubbings 14 Ellen Smith 3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< James B Stubbings 1 Agnes Ada Godard 4 Months
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 22:19 |
1861 England Census about James Stubbings Name: James Stubbings Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: 1811 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Stubbings Gender: Male Where born: Dullingham, Cambridgeshire, England Civil Parish: Wood Ditton Ecclesiastical parish: Ely County/Island: Cambridgeshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image Registration district: Newmarket Sub-registration district: Cheveley ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 147 Piece: 1031 Folio: 168 Page Number: 30 Household Members: Name Age James Stubbings 50 Mary Stubbings 45 Mary Ann Stubbings 23 John Stubbings 20 Alice Stubbings 14 James Stubbings 11 Susannah Stubbings 9 Adeliza Stubbings 6 Harry Stubbings 3
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 22:29 |
Maria
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1851 England Census about Maria Stubbins Name: Maria Stubbins Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: James Stubbins Mother's name: Mary Stubbins Gender: Female Where born: Woodditton, Cambridgeshire, England Civil Parish: Woodditton County/Island: Cambridgeshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image Registration district: Newmarket Sub-registration district: Cheveley ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 112 Piece: 1762 Folio: 111 Page Number: 31 Household Members: Name Age James Stubbins 37 Mary Stubbins 57 William Stubbins 16 Mary Ann Stubbins 13 John Stubbins 10 Maria Stubbins 8 <<<<<<<<<< Sarah Stubbins 6 Alice Stubbins 4 James Stubbins 1
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Rambling
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15 Nov 2014 22:31 |
Can't see the marriage though?
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Nicholas
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15 Nov 2014 22:57 |
Thanks.
I have ordered the birth certificate and marriage certificate of Charles Arthur E Smith, so hopefully that will give me some more info..
Hopefully that will let me follow the trail back to where Charles Smith was born and his family around Worcestershire..
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Nicholas
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15 Nov 2014 23:17 |
I've found Maria Stubbings on 1861 census: High Street, Newmarket, Ely, St Mary, Cambridgeshire. As a servant for George B Mead. Born 1832.
So she must be married between 1861-1868 to Charles Smith
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Chris Ho :)
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16 Nov 2014 08:21 |
Cambridgeshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past) First Name MARIA Last Name STUBBINGS Year Of Birth 1842 Baptism year 1842 Baptism date 29 May 1842 Abode otp Place WOOD DITTON Mother's Given Name Mary Anne Father's First Name James Father occupation lab County Cambridgeshire Record set Cambridgeshire Baptisms
(also Adeliza (Eliza 1881?) Baptism 4 March 1855 Wood Ditton)
Chris :)
(not seeing Marriage, Cambridgeshire Marriage Index cd has Banns/Marriage, Wood Ditton 1867, which go with below)
Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
DEAN Hannah Newmarket 3b 1221 Pettit Samuel Newmarket 3b 1221 STARLING Samuel Newmarket 3b 1221 STUBBINGS Mary Ann Newmarket 3b 1221
(looking on 1871 a possible Samuel and Hannah at Stetchworth which is near Newmarket, and a Samuel and Mary A Starling at Ashley, near Newmarket!)
Chris :)
edits
(below Find My Past)
Cambridgeshire Banns Transcription First name(s) Mary Ann Last name Stubbings Banns year 1867 Banns date 24 Nov 1867 Spouse's first name(s) Samuel Spouse's last name Starling Place Wood Ditton Groom's marital condition bac Groom's residence otp Bride's marital condition sp Bride's residence otp County Cambridgeshire
(ah!, she was elder Daughter of James)
Baptism (Find My Past) First Name MARY ANN Last Name STUBBINGS Year Of Birth 1837 Baptism year 1837 Baptism date 24 Sep 1837 Abode otp Place WOOD DITTON Mother's Given Name Mary Father's First Name James Father occupation lab
(could see below, and noticed same address as James 1861, explains it now!)
Baptism First Name JOHN EDWARD STARLING Last Name STUBBINGS Year Of Birth 1863 Baptism year 1863 Baptism date 15 Nov 1863 Abode of Saxon St Place WOOD DITTON Mother's Given Name Mary Ann Father's First Name [blank] Father occupation single woman
1871 (Find My Past) Samuel Starling Head - Male 37 1834 - Cambridgeshire, England Mary Ann Starling Wife - Female 33 1838 - Cambridgeshire, England John Edward Starling Son - Male 7 1864 - Cambridgeshire, England Kate Starling Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Cambridgeshire, England Alice Starling Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Cambridgeshire, England Parish Ashley County Cambridgeshire Registration district Newmarket Archive reference RG10 Piece number 1599 Folio 88 Page 3
(but, no help with your Maria Marriage though!)
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BeverleyW
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16 Nov 2014 09:31 |
I might be missing something here, but how do we know that Maria Smith is née Stubbings? In 1871 Charles Smith is living with his wife so she can't be the same one living with Samuel Starling :-S
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Chris Ho :)
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16 Nov 2014 09:35 |
(sorry Bev, was editing with above!)
Chris :)
(just seen below)
Cambridgeshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past) First Name ARTHUR HENRY Last Name SMITH Year Of Birth 1875 Baptism year 1875 Baptism date 16 Oct 1875 Abode of Hammersmith Place WOOD DITTON Mother's Given Name Maria Father's First Name Charles Father occupation bricklayer
First Name SARAH ELLEN Last Name SMITH Year Of Birth 1867 Baptism year 1867 Baptism date 18 Aug 1867 Abode of London Place WOOD DITTON Mother's Given Name Maria Father's First Name Charles Father occupation builder
Births Jun 1867 (>99%)
Stubbings Sarah Ellen Marylebone 1a 511
(a possible?)
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Nicholas
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17 Nov 2014 21:37 |
Hi Beverley.
As I understand in 1871, Mary Ann, is Maria's sister. In 1871 Maria is living with Charles in Hammersmith, on Denmark Terrace. As Maria Smith. In 1861 Maria is living in Ely, Cambridgeshire. As Maria Stubbings.
Thanks Chris + everyone for all the children info, its great finding all this info :)
I think I have followed Charles Smith back to Malvern, born in Malvern area, I think Bosbury, born in 1838.
In the 1851 Census there is a Charles Smith living in (Upton Upon Severn)Great Malvern area, and again in 1861 on the census.. His father was called John Smith, married to Anne Smith. Am I following this info back right? :-S
thanks everyone :)
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SylviaInCanada
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18 Nov 2014 04:20 |
I know you have this, but it helps me to see it
1881 Census
Name: Eliza Stubbings Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relationship to Head: Visitor Gender: Female Where born: Woodditton, Cambridgeshire, England Civil Parish: Hammersmith County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 41 Masboro Rd
Occupation: Servant Registration district: Fulham Sub registration district: St Paul Hammersmith ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 59 Folio: 6 Page Number: 8
Charles Smith 43 Maria Smith 38 Ellen Smith 13 William Smith 12 Arthur Smith 5 Henry Smith 1 Eliza Stubbings 26
Note that Eliza Stubbings is actually a VISITOR to the house. Her occupation is shown as Servant, but I do not think that she is their Servant
Are you / we assuming that Eliza Stubbings age 26 (b.ca 1855, Woodditton) on the 1881 Census is the same as Adeliza Stubbings on the 1861 Census?
1861 Census
Name: Adeliza Stubbings Age: 6 Estimated Birth Year: 1855 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: James Stubbings Mother's name: Mary Stubbings Gender: Female Where born: Wood Ditton, Cambridgeshire, England Civil Parish: Wood Ditton Ecclesiastical parish: Ely County/Island: Cambridgeshire Country: England
Registration district: Newmarket Sub-registration district: Cheveley ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 147 Piece: 1031 Folio: 168 Page Number: 30
James Stubbings 50 Mary Stubbings 45 Mary Ann Stubbings 23 John Stubbings 20 Alice Stubbings 14 James Stubbings 11 Susannah Stubbings 9 Adeliza Stubbings 6 Harry Stubbings 3
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SylviaInCanada
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18 Nov 2014 04:23 |
Is it at all possible that Charles and Maria did not in fact marry????
I have found no records of them marrying at all ................. I used freebmd, and did not enter years
there is nothing!
This could mean that one or both were married to someone else before they got together ............... or they just did not bother getting married :-)
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