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Hi Chris, no I could not find a probate record for him, as he was only 49 when he died

I have lots of other probates for other members of his family, but not him

thanks for checking for me though :-)

Sorry Sandy, did have a look the other day, now tried again with just address, helps sometimes, or even just name of Coroner...not sure Newspaper coverage is complete, did he leave a Will? (one on Ancestry for Sarah).

Chris :)

Hi Chris, yes this is great. Sorry for the late reply I have been away for the night -

is there any chance you could please look up those newspapers again for me?only look up on the following, which was Samuel Bailey's son - His name is John Bailey and the following info was emailed to me from the librarian of Cheadle Hulme School- (I have been looking for info on the inquest but Lancashire County Council seems to think a lot of records were destroyed, but I may find more on it in the local newspapers... )
Died July 30th 1894 at Selborne Road Chorlton cum Hardy. Death certificate gives cause of death as poisoning with the following information: “The effects of swallowing a quantity of Laudanum. Self-administered, no evidence to show for what purpose or with what intent it was taken.” (At the time Laudanum was freely available and was widely used as a cure for toothache – this could well have been a simple overdose. An inquest was held on the 31st July 1894 but I haven’t been able to trace the findings so far. The then Deputy Coroner for Manchester, John Frederick Price, signed a death certificate on the 2nd August 1894.
The above info on Sarah is correct :-)

05 January 1869 - Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser

Death
December 25, at her residence, Great Ancoats street, aged 60 years, Sarah, relict of the late Isaac Bailey, of this city.

(any good folks, apologies if not relating!)

Chris :)

Hannah Petty
England Births and Christenings

Name: Hannah Petty
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 17 Jan 1819
Christening Place: ORMSIDE,WESTMORLAND,ENGLAND
Father's Name: John Petty
Mother's Name: Ann
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C05566-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 97406




John Petty
England Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: John Petty
Spouse's Name: Ann Waller
Event Date: 25 Jun 1816
Event Place: Kirkby Stephen,Westmorland,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M06707-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 0097389-391, 97392



1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Ormside, Little, Ormside, East Ward, Westmorland, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
John Petty Male 45 1796 ***Warwickshire, England Blacksmith
Transcription
Ann Petty Female 50 1791 Westmorland, England
Transcription
John Petty Male 64 1777 Westmorland, England
Transcription
George Petty Male 12 1829 Westmorland, England
Transcription
William Petty Male 8 1833 Westmorland, England


*** Transcription says born Warwickshire but there is nothing about this on the image - it just says 'N' for not born in County ??
Also- re John aged 64 - It does appear to say 64 on image but I think this is actually their son John aged 14 !!



1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
East Ward, Westmorland, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Petty Head Married Male 58 1793 Black Smith Reeth, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Ann Petty Wife Married Female 60 1791 - Winton, Westmorland, England
Transcription
John Petty Son Married Male 24 1827 Black Smith Westmorland, England
Transcription
Mary Petty Wife Married Female 20 1831 - Soulby, Westmorland, England
Transcription
William Petty Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Black Smith Westmorland, England
Transcription
Joseph Petty Grand Son - Male 5 1846 - Westmorland, England




1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
West Side of Town, Kirkby Stephen, East Ward, Westmorland, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Petty Head Married Male 67 1794 Blacksmith Employing 1 Man & 1 Boy Fremington, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Ann Petty Wife Married Female 70 1791 - Winton, Westmorland, England
Transcription
Joseph Petty Grandson Unmarried Male 15 1846 Blacksmith Apprentice Kirkby Stephen, Westmorland, England


See this site for more info on her siblings' christenings and marriages etc:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Apetty~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Awestmorland~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1815-1830~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Ajohn~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Aann~

Dea x

Thanks Dea and Potty, I will look further into these tomorrow, the marriages and baptisms from Dea definitely look correct. Looks like I may have the wrong Hannah in my tree.

I will check out the Lancashire sites too Potty.

:-)

Sandy, as you are researching in Lancashire, you might find these two sites helpful:

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk - ties up couples in a marriage and sometimes has MMN for births

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html - as transcriptions of parish records.

Sandy, the marriage and baptisms Dea has posted have images on Ancestry. It looks pretty obvious that Samuel's parents were Isaac and Sarah ?? but no obvious marriage is coming up. Of course, they might not be from the Manchester area

What a shame that all vicars didn't put as much info in baptism records as Rev Whitelegg did - it would certainly help us researchers, although Samuel and Hannah don't seem too clear about the year they married in! If only that sort of info was on Samuel's baptism.

The 'brother' Samuel from the probate record:
Address and occupation are the same as given in Probate - 203 York St., Hulme.

1861 England Census about Samuel Barley (BAILEY on image)
Name: Samuel Barley
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Barley
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

View image
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Piece: 2892
Folio: 64
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Barley 39 Manchester Warehouseman. b Salford.
Hannah Barley 42 b Appleby, Westmoreland
Sarah Ann Barley 19
Elizbeth Barley 18
Margaret Barley 16
Jane Barley 12
John Barley 14

Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 2892; Folio: 64; Page: 6; GSU roll: 543046.


Some of the childrens' baptisms from Lancs OPC site:

Baptism: 25 Jul 1841 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Bailey - Daughter of Samuel Bailey & Hannah
Abode: Salford
Occupation: Packer
Baptised by: Richd. Rigg
Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1854, Page 55, Entry 439
Source: LDS Film 1786366


These three confirm the mother as Hannah (Formerly Petty!):

Baptism: 5 Jan 1845 St George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Margaret Bailey - Daughter of Samuel Bailey & Hannah (formerly Petty)
Born: 7 Dec 1844
Abode: 8 Frost St., Hulme
Occupation: Warehouseman
Parents' Marriage: St. Mary's, 1841
Baptised by: William Whitelegg
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1846, Page 255, Entry 2036
Source: LDS Film 2113127

Baptism: 7 Feb 1847 St George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
John Bailey - Son of Samuel Bailey & Hannah (formerly Petty)
Born: 21 Dec 1846
Abode: 10 Dearden St. Hulme
Occupation: Warehouseman
Parents' Marriage: St. Mary's, Manchr. 1840
Baptised by: William Whitelegg
Register: Baptisms 1846 - 1853, Page 38, Entry 300
Source: LDS Film 2113127

Baptism: 25 Feb 1849 St George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Jane Bailey - Daughter of Samuel Bailey & Hannah (formerly Petty)
Born: 9 Dec 1848
Abode: 10 Dearden Street, Hulme
Occupation: Warehouseman
Parents' Marriage: S. Mary's, Manchr. 1838
Baptised by: William Whitelegg
Register: Baptisms 1846 - 1853, Page 122, Entry 976
Source: LDS Film 2113127

Dea x

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1838
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BAILEY Samuel MORGAN Hannah Manchester Collegiate Church (later Manchester Cathedral) Manchester CATH/8/365

I don't believe the marriage to Hannah Morgan is the correct one - 'that' Samuel is working as a Grinder, living at 28 Lever Street and his father is Henry - a Waggoner
............

This one looks more likely (as mentioned above by Potty) - he is a Packer - Father Isaac, a Farmer............

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1840
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BAILEY Samuel PETTY Hannah Manchester, St. Mary Manchester 9/2/32

Entry in Register can be seen here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12432-55830-43?cc=1788853&wc=M6F8-T6N:143838901,157727701,150583501

Dea x

Potty and Dea, my apologies for not answering last night. I needed sleep

Thank you both very much for looking for me, and Potty for sticking up for me, on having 2 threads for the one family. I too, thought it would be too confusing to put it all in the one thread.

I will look at all the suggestions more closely, just one question though- how do I confirm? My logic so far has been to use Census and then to try and back it up with a probate find.

I do have access to Ancestry, but found I was going around in circles and needed some fresh minds.
I believe that Samuel married Hannah Morgan born Dec 25/1818 Little Eversden, Westmorland, England

Sandy, if you don't have access to Ancestry, I can send you the images of the above baptisms and marriages.

That is the nearest I can find too Potty and the 1851 gives his age as 50 so it could well be the one. (even though he is aged 30 on 1841 :-0 :-S)

I still can't see a Samuel to this couple, who the OP says is Isaacs brother.

Dea x

I can't find a baptism for Isaac (1811). The nearest is this:


Lancashire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

Name:Isaac Bailey
Baptism Date:27 May 1798
Parish:Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Father's Name:
Isaac Bailey

Mother's name:Betty Bailey

Register Type:Bishops Transcripts

Reference Number:
Drm/2/261

I have been wondering about this baptism for Isaac ?? - Remember the birth year for Isaac on 1841 was 1811 but the ages were usually rounded down to the nearest 5 years :

Baptism: 17 May 1807 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Isaac Bailey - Son of Matthew Bailey & Mary
Born: 5 Apr 1807
Abode: Whitefield
Register: Baptisms 1791 - 1812, Page 118
Source: LDS Film 2356182


EDIT ADDED : - Oops - forget the above baptism as it looks like this Isaac died as a child:

Burial: 15 Jun 1810 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Isaac Bailey - Son of Matthew Bailey
Abode: Whitefield
Source: LDS Film 2356182


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Ancoats Street, Great, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Isaac Bailey Male 30 1811 Lancashire, England - Lic. Victualler.
Transcription
Serah Bailey Female 30 1811 Lancashire, England
Transcription
Isaac Bailey Male 4 1837 Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Crichley Female 20 1821 Warwickshire, England

Dea x

Did Samuel marry a Hannah? If so this could be the marriage:


Name:Hannah Petty
Age:Full Age
Marriage Date:28 Jun 1840
Parish:Manchester, St Mary
Parish as it Appears:Manchester
Father's Name:John Petty
Spouse's Name:Samuel Barley - Bailey on image
Spouse's Father's Name:Isaac Barley, farmer, Bailey on image

Isaac appears to have married Sarah Jones in 1830 but father's were not named on marriage records then:


Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name:Isare Bailey, Dyer, Isaac on image
Gender:Male
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:15 Aug 1830
Parish:Manchester, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Spouse:Sarah Jones
Register Type:Bishop's Transcript

There is a sister-in-law, Harriet Jones, living with the family in 1851 when Isaac is shown as a Publican.

Sandy, do you know when, who and where Samuel married? The marriage may well be on Ancestry and would save you buying the marriage cert.

Yes, I do know Sandy has another thread for this family but feel that in this case it would be very confusing to answer this query on the other thread which relates to a much later time.

Good idea,

Your help is very much appreciated. Thanks Jacqueline :-)

If Samuel married, your best bet is to get a copy of his marriage cert.

It will include his father's details, and eliminate all the guesswork

Thanks, I will try to keep that in mind AnnCardiff, new to it all is all I can say...