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Hi JoonieCloonie.. yes the proliferation of like names such as Johannes Stephanus & Pieter Johannes Stefanus can tie you in knots in this Family tree however, 1722 Johannes Stephanus Lucardie died in 1781 in den bosch, and his 2nd wife, Margareta van der Ven died in 1777 so that her out of being the Margareta at the 1786 Leiden baptism.
Margareta van der Ven ( c.1722 ) married 1722 Johannes in 1761 and have no known children, by his 1st wife, Catharina Breugel, 1722 Johannes is credited with just 4 children, between 1748 and 1751.. Pieter, Margareta and Cornelia would fit the timeline as extra children to 1722 Johannes but.. as is usual, I need to find some way of confirming one way or another. Thanks.

glad some of that helped ;)

re

'Grandfather, 1722 Johannes Stephanus Lucardie & his 2nd wife Margareta van der Ven.'

is there any possibility that they are Cornelia's parents?
could the Margareta Lucardie who witnessed the 1786 baptism be that Margareta? (or would she have been called Margareta van der Ven)
or a daughter of Johannes Stephanus and Margareta?

is it possible that Johannes Stephanus and Margareta (or Johannes Stephanus and his first wife) had a son Pieter Johannes Stefanus Lucardie (who would have been the brother (or maybe half-brother) of 1751 Johannes Stephanus Lucardie ...)?

just theories :-)


I would definitely think that the Cornelia Rosettas are one and the same.

That could mean that the children took the stepfathers' surname, as they would have been minors at the time of the remarriage. I don't know what the usual practice would have been.

Hi again. JoonieCloonie.. re the 'ship's boy' in November 1793. This Johannes Stephanus Lucardie is a known individual.. baptised on the 19th of June 1777, witnessed by his parents 1751 Johannes Stephanus Lucardie & Adriana van Ijpen as well as his Grandfather, 1722 Johannes Stephanus Lucardie & his 2nd wife Margareta van der Ven.
He was 15 and a half when he sailed with the VOC for the East Indies and his history is extensively recorded.. he has a multitude of descendants that "build" a great picture of the Dutch period in the East Indies.. right up till the Japanese occupation in WW2
The 1785 Marriage of Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie, and the extra child of 1789 are new & I guess I now have to find a way to sight originals..
I also went back to the Dutch wiewaswie site and there is.. Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie, marrying a Carel Jan du Pui, on March 10th, 1799.. can't help but wonder, given that Dutch ladies retained their own name in records, whether she may be the one and same in a second marriage so will have a contact in Rotterdam pursue the original records to see if there is any detail of parents etc
So.. Who was Pieter is still unresolved but we have new detail to pursue, Thanks to all, & I'll be sure to post results.

JoonieCloonie.. that's some new detail for me to look at. Many Thanks.. I've been away all day at a 90th birthday so will look at this this evening.. Thanks again.

could a child baptised in July 1786 have been a 'ship's boy' in November 1793 i.e. aged 7 and a half?

Johannes Stephanus Lucardie

https://openarch.nl/show.php?archive=ghn&identifier=0064ea58-2fe6-4b57-b480-0b850912b4e6&lang=en

I know the one in your opening post was baptised Steenbergh ... I wonder whether he was born earlier as Lucardie ... and so was older in 1793 ...

in any case it is an earlier appearance of the name combination Johannes Stephanus Lucardie

question ... the 1786 baptism has

Witnesses Margareta Lucardie & Pieter Johannes Stefanus Lucardie.

what info is there that this witness PJSL is a grandfather of the child baptised ?

he could have been a brother of mother Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie?


the marriage of Lukardie and Steenberg is shown here just for info

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FN4K-CZ7

Name: Abraham Steenberg
Spouse's Name: Cornelia Rosetta Ludkardie
Event Date: 16 Aug 1785
Event Place: Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M90101-6

can an original record of that marriage be found that would name parents or witnesses?

and familysearch shows one other baptism to the couple

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBYR-B77

Name: Abraham Steenbergh
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Oct 1789
Christening Place: Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Father's Name: Abraham Steenbergh
Mother's Name: Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00823-4

Ann, Gins..That is one of the frustrations of this mystery Pieter.. The Peter ( and his spouse Agatha ) that Ann mentioned, are 1st cousins ( several removes ) to my line, there is a shared Grandparent, 2 times to Pieter ( and Agatha ), 4 times to my line, and Pieter Johannes Stefanus became a name tradition in the Lucardie line.. a grandson of Pieter & Agatha was to set up a business in the U.K. ( Agatha's husband Pieter was a 'thread manufacturer' ).
However, Pieter Johannes Lucardie, of the 1837 marriage to Agatha Van Der Vliet, was born in 1810 and was the first so named, in the family, till the discovery of the like named Pieter in the Leiden baptism of 1786. Adding to the frustration is that there is no birth record for the daughter, Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie, and once she's had this child, Johannes Stefanus Steenbergh baptised on the 5th of July 1786, she too disappears. Regards

realise that Gins - just stuck them on when I found them in case they connect

Ann, Wayen gives the date of birth in the 18th century

Name: Pieter Johannes Lucardie
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 08 Oct 1846
Birthplace: Rotterdam, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Father's Name: Pieter Johannes Lucardie
Mother's Name: Agatha Van Der Vliet
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02792-9 , System Origin: Netherlands-EASy , GS Film number: 296979 , Reference ID: Akte 2395

Name: Pieter Johannes Lucardie
Spouse's Name: Agatha Van Der Vliet
Event Date: 03 Aug 1837
Event Place: Burgerlijke Stand,Zierikzee,Zeeland,Netherlands
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M90020-5 , System Origin: Netherlands-ODM , GS Film number: 122911

Hi.. some of that family travelled to the UK in the 19th Century but of this Pieter Johannes Stefanus Lucardie, I've no idea. As to age, with a grandson being baptised in Leiden in 1786, I'm guessing that he'd be near 50 y.o., born circa 1730. that only adds to the mystery as all known individuals of this surname, of Dutch origin, are related and the earliest was circa 1722 in Den Bosch. As for this Pieter.. his attendance at this baptism is the only record of him, found so far.

Approximately when was Pieter born?

Did he come to the UK?

Thanks re the Steenbergh detail.. The mystery is Pieter Johannes Stefanus Lucardie pre 1786.. can't see marriage, birth or any such detail.

Name: Abraham Steenbergh
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 18 Nov 1746
Christening Place: Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Father's Name: Jan Steenbergh
Mother's Name: Johanna Maria Varlet
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C90044-5 , System Origin: Netherlands-EASy , GS Film number: 113174

Name: Abraham Steenbergh
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Oct 1789
Christening Place: Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Father's Name: Abraham Steenbergh
Mother's Name: Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00823-4 , System Origin: Netherlands-EASy , GS Film number: 113152

openarch.nl records a baptism of a child Johannes Stefanus Steenbergh, on the 5th of July 1786, in Leiden. his parents are Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie & Abraham Steenbergh, with Witnesses Margareta Lucardie & Pieter Johannes Stefanus Lucardie..
My problem is that my Lucardie line is fairly well researched back to circa 1722, a Lutheran family of Den Bosch & Rotterdam, and there are other Pieter Johannes Stefanus's post 1786, there are seemingly no records of a Pieter Johannes Stefanus Lucardie, Margareta or, Cornelia Rosetta Lucardie, pre this 1786 baptism.
The assistance of any who may have some skills with Dutch records etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks