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Hello

I am confused. I have just purchased a copy of my ancestors birth certificate - Emily Harriett Hearnden, the only parent mentioned is the mother - Elizabeth Ann Gibbs. Emily was born on the 24th of February 1872, address South Under Cliff, Rye. However in the 1881 census Elizabeth is married to William Hearnden. Why is his name not on his daughters birth certificate when Emily was given her father's name?

Emily gave birth to an illegitimate daughter called Annie Elizabeth Hearnden who was born in 1895. On Annie's wedding certificate 15th June 1913 (she was only 17) the spelling changed to Hernden. I am unable to find a birth certificate for Annie Elizabeth Hearnden or Hernden. I came across Annie Elizabeth Gibbs, born in Rye, 2nd quarter 1895 - I haven't bought this one as if it's correct Annie has her grandmother's maiden name. Again I don't understand this. In the 1911 census Emily is now Emily Mallion and her daughter is Annie Gibbs. She married Henry Mallion in the 1st quarter of 1903 .

Please can anyone shed any light on :-S

Name: Emily Hearnden
Age (Original): 8
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1873
Birthplace: Rye, Sussex, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Scholar
Address: 7 South Under Cliff
Event Place: Rye, Sussex, England
Record Type: Household
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 1017 / 48
Page Number: 26
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Hearnden Head M 52 Rye, Sussex, England
Elizabeth Ann Hearnden Wife F 43 Rye, Sussex, England
Ellen Hearnden Daughter F 17 Rye, Sussex, England
Annie Hearnden Daughter F 13 Rye, Sussex, England
Emily Hearnden Daughter F 8 Rye, Sussex, England
Olive Hearnden Daughter F 6 Rye, Sussex, England
Ada Hearnden Daughter F 2 Rye, Sussex, England
Ceilia Hearnden Daughter F 0 Rye, Sussex, England

Name: Emily Hernden
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Relationship to Head of Household: Visitor
Birthplace: Rye, Sussex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Rye
Sub-District: Beckley
Ecclesiastical Parish: Northiam St Mary
Civil Parish: Northiam
District/Parish/County: Sussex

Name: William H G Hearnden
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 49
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Birthplace: Rye, Sussex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Rye
Sub-District: Rye
Parish: Rye
County: Sussex
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William H G Hearnden Self M 49 Rye, Sussex
Elizabeth A Gibbs Mother F 32 Rye, Sussex
William T H Gibbs Son M 10 Rye, Sussex
Eliza E H Gibbs Daughter F 7 Rye, Sussex
Eliza A H Gibbs Daughter F 3 Rye, Sussex
David G H Gibbs Son M 2 Rye, Sussex
James C H Gibbs Son M 0 Rye, Sussex

Name: William H Hearnden
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Gender: Male
Age: 38
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: Rye, Sussex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Rye
Sub-District: 1 Rye
Parish: Rye
Residence County: Sussex

Hi, yes this is the right family that is why I cannot understand Emily's 1872 birth certificate.as William is clearly the father.
:-|

Thank you Ann for your posts - I still find it confusing.

It looks as though William and Elizabeth weren't married

Hello Astra, it looks like that to me - however on the census it does state that Elizabeth is William's wife. There was a lot of children for them not to be married. Thank you for replying. :-S

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Emily Harriet Hernden Gibbs Name:Emily Harriet Hernden Gibbs
Gender:Female
Birth Date:25 Feb 1872
Christening Date:11 Oct 1872
Christening Place:Rye, Sussex, England
Age at Christening:0
Mother's name:Elizabeth Ann Gibbs

Hello PrickyHolly, I'm guessing that there was no father's name then on the christening record? The mother's name is the same, the christening record has the birth date incorrect by a day, as the birth certificate states 24th of February 1872. Thank you for your post. :-S

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about James Osborne Hernden Gibbs Name:James Osborne Hernden Gibbs
Gender: Male
Birth Date:23 Sep 1870
Christening Date:11 Oct 1872
Christening Place:Rye, Sussex, England
Age at Christening:2
Mother's name:Elizabeth Ann Gibbs



England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about David George Hernden Gibbs Name:David George Hernden Gibbs
Gender:Male
Birth Date:11 Jan 1869
Christening Date:11 Oct 1872
Christening Place:Rye, Sussex, England
Age at Christening:3
Mother's name:Elizabeth Ann Gibbs


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ellen Jane Hearnden Gibbs Name:Ellen Jane Hearnden Gibbs
Registration Year:1863
Registration Quarter:Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district:Rye
Inferred County:Sussex
Volume:2b
Page:4



England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Thomas James Hearnden Gibbs Name:Thomas James Hearnden Gibbs
Registration Year:1862
Registration Quarter:Apr-May-Jun
Registration district:Rye
Inferred County:Sussex
Volume:2b
Page:1

Hello Prickly/Holly - looks like they definitely were not married then and were "living" as man and wife. Thank you now I know William and Ann were not married. :-)

southwark .............


the fact that a couple are shown as married on a census really means nothing ...........................


common-law relationships were just as common back thn as they are now ................ only people generally didn't admit it to census takers, their neighbours, etc.



You might want to check to see if either William or Elizabeth had an erlier marriage ............... divorce was extremely difficult and expensive if the marriage broke down.


William is quite a bit older than Elizabeth, so I would suspect that it is he who has the previous marriage




One thing you often find is a marriage much later in life for a common-law couple ...................... which happens after an earlier spouse (or spouses) had died.

Hello SylvialnCanada, thank you for your reply. I just took it that a person then would not lie to officialdom, so your insight is very helpful, many thanks








:-) :-) :-) :-)

1851 England Census
about Willm H Hearnden Name:Willm H Hearnden
Age:28
Estimated birth year:abt 1823
Relation:Lodger
Gender:Male
Where born:Rye, Sussex, England
Civil Parish:Rye
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
Town:Rye
County/Island:Sussex
Country:England
Registration district:Romney Marsh
Sub-registration district:New Romney

Household Members:

Thomas Moon 60
Ann Moon 69
Willm H Hearnden 28
Ann Hearnden 27


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Ann Brett Name:Ann Brett
Registration Year:1850
Registration Quarter:Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district:Rye
Inferred County:Sussex
Volume:7
Page:643

Ann Brett
William Henry Hernde
William Henry Hernden



1861 England Census
about William H Hearndon Name:William H Hearndon
Age:38
Estimated birth year:1823
Relation:Head
Gender:Male
Where born:Rye, Sussex, England
Civil Parish:Rye
Town:Rye
County/Island:Sussex
Country:England
Registration district:Rye
Sub-registration district:Rye


Household Members:

William H Hearndon 38
Elizabeth A Gibbs 21
William H H Gibbs 1
Thomas Moon 72

Thank you again, William's wife whom he legally married was Ann Brett :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

It took a while but we got there in the end!

:-) :-) :-)

thank you everyone xxxx :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Ann Brett was born ca 1824, Rye, Sussex



William DID marry Elizabeth :-)



from freebmd ..................


Marriages Sep 1874 (>99%)

GIBBS Ann Elizabeth Rye 2b 17
Green William Henry H Rye 2b 17



Elizabeth's forenames are just shown the other way round :-)


You might want to get this certificate, and see how they each describe themselves.

William should be shown as Widower