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Thank you all so much for your help my dad David baker and sister Anne baker have no father on birth certificate listed, only assumed she married Joseph as am aware she had a relationship with him and with children having his surname. Think will order my aunts birth certificate to see if that changes anything x
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I, too, think she wed Joseph, but the marr ended after a couple of years, whether legally, with the death of Joseph, or just because they went their own ways, it's not easy to guess without their m.cert. Anyways, Agnes then had Jean with Mr Limacher.
Agnes was free to call Jean by any surname she chose, but Mr Limacher had acknowledged his fatherhood by accompanying Agnes when she rego'ed Jean's birth, and signed as her dad. He might have even paid some support for Jean, or continued to live with Agnes - who knows (well, maybe Jean does). Anyways, Jean got called Limacher. If you lookup Jean on FreeBMD, then click on her page # on the hit, you'll see all the index entries that point to that page of b.certs. In this case, you'll see there sre 6 entries instead of the usual 5. The reason is that there's 2 index entries for Jean's b.cert:
Baker Jean A Grierson Liverpool N 8b 892
Limacher Jean A Grierson Liverpool N 8b 892
I don't know abt b.certs post-1969q1, but pre-1969q2, the child is not given a surname on the b.cert - the implication is that the child will take the surname of a parent, although there's no legal obligation that the child should be so named.
The m.cert will also allow you to trace Agnes further back.
Andrew's 4 Aug 2014 19:17 post offers 2 possibilities for Agnes's birth rego, viz:
1906q3 (d/o William, Sheet metal worker) and 1912q1 (d/o Francis, Engine fitter).
I favour the latter, but that's really just a guess.
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Using LancsBMD http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1912
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
GRIERSON Agnes West Derby Western Liverpool WDW/72/35
Incidentally, another lookup shows David & his 2 sis were all rego'ed in the Everton subdistrict of Liverpool North RD
Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
GRIERSON Agnes Jones W.Derby 8b 1083
Births Dec 1913 (>99%)
Grierson David Jones W.Derby 8b 1128
Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Grierson George H Jones W.Derby 8b 1131
Births Mar 1917 (>99%)
Grierson Robert R Jones W. Derby 8b 889
1911
Address 22 Edgeware Street Edge Hill Liverpool
Parish West Derby
Registration district West Derby
County Lancashire
Country England
Subdistrict West Derby Western
Enumeration district 41
Census reference RG14PN22593 RG78PN1326 RD455 SD9 ED41 SN278
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Francis Grierson Head Married Male 52 1859 Engine Fitter Kirkcudbright N B Resident
Annie Grierson Wife Married Female 32 1879 - Ruthin N Wales
James Grierson Son Single Male 26 1885 Marine Fireman Liverpool Lancs
Francis Grierson Son Single Male 19 1892 Sugar Boiler Liverpool Lancs
Edward Grierson Son Single Male 16 1895 Shop Assistant Liverpool Lancs
Emily Grierson Daughter Single Female 15 1896 - Liverpool Lancs
Annie Grierson Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Liverpool Lancs
John Grierson Son - Male 1 1910 - Liverpool Lancs
Fanny Polland Niece Single Female 15 1896 - Liverpool Lancs
[marr 8y; 3 live births, 2 still living
I think NB - North Britain - there's no Kirkcudbright in the New Brunswick 1911 census]
1901
House number 1
House name -
Street Hatfield Street
Parish West Derby
Town -
County Lancashire
Country England
Municipal ward Low Hill
Parliamentary borough West Derby Liverpool Bootle
Registration district West Derby
Registration Sub-District: West Derby, Western
Enumeration district 63
Series RG13 Piece number 3495 Folio number 154 Page 19
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Francis Grierson Head Widower Male 43 1858 Engine Fitter Scotland
William Grierson Son Single Male 17 1884 Draper's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire
James Grierson Son - Male 15 1886 Grocer's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire
Jennet Grierson Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire
Francis Grierson Son - Male 9 1892 - Liverpool, Lancashire
Edward Grierson Son - Male 6 1895 - Liverpool, Lancashire
Susan Corlett Servant Widow Female 33 1868 Housekeeper Domestic Ireland Dublin
Arthur Corlett Visitor - Male 9 1892 - Liverpool, Lancashire
Mary Corlett Visitor - Female 4 1897 - Liverpool, Lancashire
Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%)
Grierson Emily 32 W. Derby 8b 286
1891
Street 13 Salisbury Street North
Parish Everton
Town Liverpool
City Liverpool
County Lancashire
Country England
Municipal ward Everton
Parliamentary borough Everton
Ecclesiastical district St Ambrose
Registration district West Derby
Registration Sub-District 1C South Everton
Enumeration district 10
Series RG12 Piece number 2944 Folio number 23 Page 40
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Francis Grierson Head Married Male 32 1859 Engine Fitter Scotland
Emily Grierson Wife Married Female 27 1864 - L'pool, Lancashire
James Grierson Son - Male 5 1886 - L'pool, Lancashire
Janet Grierson Daughter - Female 2 1889 - L'pool, Lancashire
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1883
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GREIRSON Francis WILSOX Emily Toxteth Park, St. Michael Liverpool 2068TP/14/345
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Here's the older Agnes, in case I guessed wrong.
1911
Address 106 Thornton Road Bootle Lancashire
Parish Bootle cum Linacre
Registration district West Derby
County Lancashire
Country England
Subdistrict Bootle
Enumeration district 31
Census reference RG14PN22437 RG78PN1322 RD455 SD5 ED31 SN174
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Grierson Head Married Male 40 1871 Sheet Metal Worker Brazier Busby Renfrewshire
Isabella Grierson Wife Married Female 35 1876 - Kirkdale Liverpool Lancashire
William Graham McNeil Grierson Son - Male 13 1898 School Bootle Lancashire
James Grierson Son - Male 11 1900 School Bootle Lancashire
Margaret Isabella Grierson Daughter - Female 9 1902 School Bootle Lancashire
Roy McCrum Grierson Son - Male 7 1904 School Bootle Lancashire
Agnes Scott Grierson Daughter - Female 4 1907 - Bootle Lancashire
Donald Grierson Son - Male 1 1910 - Bootle Lancashire
[marr 14y; 6 live births; 6 still living]
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GRIERSON William GRIERSON Isabella West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/158/135
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1899
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
GRIERSON James Litherland South Sefton GRIERSON LITH/32/409
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1901
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
GRIERSON Margaret Isabella Litherland South Sefton GRIERSON LITH/35/47
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1904
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
GRIERSON Roy Mccrum Bootle South Sefton GRIERSON B/19/105
[LancsBMD has only done Bootle 1899-1905; Litherland 1837-1905]
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http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ has many useful transcriptions of parish records.
Ancestry has a collection of Liverpool parish records online.
Note that RCs weren't authorized to keep official marr regos until (I think) the 1980s - before that a registrar had to attend an RC marr with his own official register for the couple to sign, so that's where one finds the official registration - but this doesn't stop the church from recoding the same details in its own unofficial register, and many RC churches did.
Pre-1898, almost all non-conformists, not just RCs, weren't authorized to keep official marr regos - the exceptions were jews and quakers who together contribute less than 0.3% of marrs.
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