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mgnv
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7 Aug 2014 05:49 |
Here's the older Agnes, in case I guessed wrong.
1911 Address 106 Thornton Road Bootle Lancashire Parish Bootle cum Linacre Registration district West Derby County Lancashire Country England Subdistrict Bootle Enumeration district 31 Census reference RG14PN22437 RG78PN1322 RD455 SD5 ED31 SN174
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place William Grierson Head Married Male 40 1871 Sheet Metal Worker Brazier Busby Renfrewshire Isabella Grierson Wife Married Female 35 1876 - Kirkdale Liverpool Lancashire William Graham McNeil Grierson Son - Male 13 1898 School Bootle Lancashire James Grierson Son - Male 11 1900 School Bootle Lancashire Margaret Isabella Grierson Daughter - Female 9 1902 School Bootle Lancashire Roy McCrum Grierson Son - Male 7 1904 School Bootle Lancashire Agnes Scott Grierson Daughter - Female 4 1907 - Bootle Lancashire Donald Grierson Son - Male 1 1910 - Bootle Lancashire [marr 14y; 6 live births; 6 still living]
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference GRIERSON William GRIERSON Isabella West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/158/135
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1899 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference GRIERSON James Litherland South Sefton GRIERSON LITH/32/409
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1901 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference GRIERSON Margaret Isabella Litherland South Sefton GRIERSON LITH/35/47
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1904 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference GRIERSON Roy Mccrum Bootle South Sefton GRIERSON B/19/105 [LancsBMD has only done Bootle 1899-1905; Litherland 1837-1905]
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http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ has many useful transcriptions of parish records.
Ancestry has a collection of Liverpool parish records online. Note that RCs weren't authorized to keep official marr regos until (I think) the 1980s - before that a registrar had to attend an RC marr with his own official register for the couple to sign, so that's where one finds the official registration - but this doesn't stop the church from recoding the same details in its own unofficial register, and many RC churches did. Pre-1898, almost all non-conformists, not just RCs, weren't authorized to keep official marr regos - the exceptions were jews and quakers who together contribute less than 0.3% of marrs.
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mgnv
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7 Aug 2014 05:26 |
Using LancsBMD http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1912 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference GRIERSON Agnes West Derby Western Liverpool WDW/72/35
Incidentally, another lookup shows David & his 2 sis were all rego'ed in the Everton subdistrict of Liverpool North RD
Births Mar 1912 (>99%) GRIERSON Agnes Jones W.Derby 8b 1083
Births Dec 1913 (>99%) Grierson David Jones W.Derby 8b 1128
Births Jun 1915 (>99%) Grierson George H Jones W.Derby 8b 1131
Births Mar 1917 (>99%) Grierson Robert R Jones W. Derby 8b 889
1911 Address 22 Edgeware Street Edge Hill Liverpool Parish West Derby Registration district West Derby County Lancashire Country England Subdistrict West Derby Western Enumeration district 41 Census reference RG14PN22593 RG78PN1326 RD455 SD9 ED41 SN278
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Francis Grierson Head Married Male 52 1859 Engine Fitter Kirkcudbright N B Resident Annie Grierson Wife Married Female 32 1879 - Ruthin N Wales James Grierson Son Single Male 26 1885 Marine Fireman Liverpool Lancs Francis Grierson Son Single Male 19 1892 Sugar Boiler Liverpool Lancs Edward Grierson Son Single Male 16 1895 Shop Assistant Liverpool Lancs Emily Grierson Daughter Single Female 15 1896 - Liverpool Lancs Annie Grierson Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Liverpool Lancs John Grierson Son - Male 1 1910 - Liverpool Lancs Fanny Polland Niece Single Female 15 1896 - Liverpool Lancs [marr 8y; 3 live births, 2 still living I think NB - North Britain - there's no Kirkcudbright in the New Brunswick 1911 census]
1901 House number 1 House name - Street Hatfield Street Parish West Derby Town - County Lancashire Country England Municipal ward Low Hill Parliamentary borough West Derby Liverpool Bootle Registration district West Derby Registration Sub-District: West Derby, Western Enumeration district 63 Series RG13 Piece number 3495 Folio number 154 Page 19
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Francis Grierson Head Widower Male 43 1858 Engine Fitter Scotland William Grierson Son Single Male 17 1884 Draper's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire James Grierson Son - Male 15 1886 Grocer's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire Jennet Grierson Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire Francis Grierson Son - Male 9 1892 - Liverpool, Lancashire Edward Grierson Son - Male 6 1895 - Liverpool, Lancashire Susan Corlett Servant Widow Female 33 1868 Housekeeper Domestic Ireland Dublin Arthur Corlett Visitor - Male 9 1892 - Liverpool, Lancashire Mary Corlett Visitor - Female 4 1897 - Liverpool, Lancashire
Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%) Grierson Emily 32 W. Derby 8b 286
1891 Street 13 Salisbury Street North Parish Everton Town Liverpool City Liverpool County Lancashire Country England Municipal ward Everton Parliamentary borough Everton Ecclesiastical district St Ambrose Registration district West Derby Registration Sub-District 1C South Everton Enumeration district 10 Series RG12 Piece number 2944 Folio number 23 Page 40
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Francis Grierson Head Married Male 32 1859 Engine Fitter Scotland Emily Grierson Wife Married Female 27 1864 - L'pool, Lancashire James Grierson Son - Male 5 1886 - L'pool, Lancashire Janet Grierson Daughter - Female 2 1889 - L'pool, Lancashire
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1883 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference GREIRSON Francis WILSOX Emily Toxteth Park, St. Michael Liverpool 2068TP/14/345
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mgnv
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7 Aug 2014 04:48 |
I, too, think she wed Joseph, but the marr ended after a couple of years, whether legally, with the death of Joseph, or just because they went their own ways, it's not easy to guess without their m.cert. Anyways, Agnes then had Jean with Mr Limacher. Agnes was free to call Jean by any surname she chose, but Mr Limacher had acknowledged his fatherhood by accompanying Agnes when she rego'ed Jean's birth, and signed as her dad. He might have even paid some support for Jean, or continued to live with Agnes - who knows (well, maybe Jean does). Anyways, Jean got called Limacher. If you lookup Jean on FreeBMD, then click on her page # on the hit, you'll see all the index entries that point to that page of b.certs. In this case, you'll see there sre 6 entries instead of the usual 5. The reason is that there's 2 index entries for Jean's b.cert:
Baker Jean A Grierson Liverpool N 8b 892 Limacher Jean A Grierson Liverpool N 8b 892
I don't know abt b.certs post-1969q1, but pre-1969q2, the child is not given a surname on the b.cert - the implication is that the child will take the surname of a parent, although there's no legal obligation that the child should be so named.
The m.cert will also allow you to trace Agnes further back. Andrew's 4 Aug 2014 19:17 post offers 2 possibilities for Agnes's birth rego, viz: 1906q3 (d/o William, Sheet metal worker) and 1912q1 (d/o Francis, Engine fitter). I favour the latter, but that's really just a guess.
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Carolann
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5 Aug 2014 19:08 |
Thank you all so much for your help my dad David baker and sister Anne baker have no father on birth certificate listed, only assumed she married Joseph as am aware she had a relationship with him and with children having his surname. Think will order my aunts birth certificate to see if that changes anything x
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LondonBelle
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5 Aug 2014 16:51 |
This looks to be the 1911 census for the above birth
Name: Agnes May Grayson Age in 1911: 3 Estimated birth year: abt 1908 Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female Civil Parish: Llandeilo Talybont County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Street address: 28 Lower Lime St Gorseinon Registration district: Swansea Registration District Number: 594 Sub-registration district: Llandeilo Talybont ED, institution, or vessel: 06 Household schedule number: 243 Piece: 32725 Household Members: Name Age Vecey Grayson 29 Martha Grayson 25 Agnes May Grayson 3 Vecey Donald Grayson 8/12
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LondonBelle
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5 Aug 2014 16:45 |
I thought I'd add this birth to the Thread..........although the spelling of the surname is different it sounds similiar to Grierson
Name: Agnes May Grayson Registration Year: 1908 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration district: Swansea Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Glamorgan Volume: 11a Page: 1126
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Gritty
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5 Aug 2014 16:29 |
Carolann that sounds like a mystery that you have to solve!!- if you definately know that Jean was your Dad's sister I would definately get her birth certificate.
But first you really need your Dad's birth cert- Does it give his father as Thomas or Joseph? There is only one Grierson marriage to a Joseph Baker, (the other Grierson/ Baker marriage is a Thomas Baker)
I hope this makes sense :)
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Carolann
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5 Aug 2014 16:02 |
Hi, sorry for late reply this is where family issues set in i know from marriage certificate that my nan's maiden name is grierson. My father is baker but not sure how my aunt got surname limacher and noone knows why. I found two grierson and baker that married close to each other and ordered the other one and think she was mary x
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Gritty
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5 Aug 2014 13:52 |
Hi Carolann, I'm a little lost too!
Did the name Agnes Grierson come from your father's birth certificate? Was she unmarried when she had your father?
How did you find out she'd died with surname baker?
I do hope you get back to us :)
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Gee
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5 Aug 2014 08:46 |
Hi
Thanks. What do you hope to find from her birth certificate?
Can you comment on the two marriages above, I'm confused.com! One is Mary Agnew and the other is Agnes
Edit:
Jean is Agnes Grierson' daughter?
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Carolann
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5 Aug 2014 08:42 |
My aunt is jean limacher she married Peter Anderson.
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Gee
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5 Aug 2014 08:18 |
Not sure what you mean regarding the marriages you make mention to?
Marriages Sep 1929
Grierson Mary A m Thomas Baker W. Derby 8b 1241
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Marriages Jun 1934
Grierson Agnes m Joseph Baker Liverpool 8b 311
' I may have to request my elderly aunts birth certificate'
Who is your elderly aunt please?
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SylviaInCanada
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5 Aug 2014 01:28 |
The information on a death certificate is only as good as the informant knows ........ or as much as the deceased allowed them to know!
Even family get it wrong.
Soooooooooo ........... age and date of birth are very often wrong
The only information that you can count on being correct on a death certificate is ..................
date and place of death cause of death name and address of doctor name of coroner and date of coroner's inquest if applicable name, address and relationship of informant
EVERYTHING else may have to be taken with a pinch of salt!
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Carolann
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4 Aug 2014 20:04 |
Thank you for all your help x I have previously requested a marriage certificate but found two women with same name married a Joseph baker. I may have to request my elderly aunts birth certificate x
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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4 Aug 2014 19:58 |
Scotland possibilities
6 1908 GRIERSON AGNES F HAMILTON /LANARK 647/00 0963 7 1909 GRIERSON AGNES F HAWICK /ROXBURGH 789/00 0254 8 1909 GRIERSON AGNES GIBSON F COATBRIDGE OR OLD MONKLAND /LANARK 652/02 1394
so no Agnes May
Jude
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Carolann
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4 Aug 2014 19:51 |
We believe that she may of had a younger sister Emily but no further details except she lived in Wavertree had a child called May.
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Gee
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4 Aug 2014 19:47 |
Did a little digging....was Agnes born in Scotland?
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Gee
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4 Aug 2014 19:21 |
It seems that the person who registered her death did not know her DOB as it should have been included in the registration
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Andrew
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4 Aug 2014 19:19 |
Do you know if Agnes had any brothers or sisters?
Andy
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Andrew
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4 Aug 2014 19:17 |
There is no birth with corresponds to the info given. These are the two closest I can see and dates are wrong if the info on the death record is correct.
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Sep 1906 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grierson Agnes Scott W. Derby 8b 342 Scan available - click to view
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Mar 1912 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GRIERSON Agnes Jones W.Derby 8b 1083
You will need a copy of the marriage cert to check her age and fathers details (if known)
You can order from
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
Cost is £9.25 and takes about 5 days to arrive in post. You can't view on line.
Andy
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