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ArgyllGran
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21 May 2014 17:17 |
The only faint possibility I can see for Horatio's death would be if the registrar (or informant) got his name badly wrong:
???? Deaths Mar 1876 (>99%) Smith Hezekiah 41 Manchester 8d 151
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safc
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21 May 2014 14:56 |
William Reid, "England, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Parish Registers, 1603-1910" Name: William Reid Event Type: Marriage Event Date: 02 Mar 1881 Event Place: St Philip, Manchester, Lancashire, England Gender: Male Age: Marital Status: Single Birth Year (Estimated): Father's Name: James Reid Mother's Name: Spouse's Name: Sarah Ann Smith Spouse's Age: Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): Spouse's Father's Name: William Holton Spouse's Mother's Name: GS Film number: 2357537 Digital Folder Number: 004497844 Image Number: 00539
marriage cert
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159376-860777-67?cc=1788853&wc=M6FD-ZWP:143838901,158004801,158058501
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ArgyllGran
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21 May 2014 14:50 |
Sarah Ann remarried, so probably Horatio died 1871-81, or maybe they divorced.
Marriages Mar 1881 (>99%) REID William Manchester 8d 278 SMITH Sarah Ann Manchester 8d 278
1881 England Census about John Smith Name: John Smith Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relationship to Head: Step Son Mother: Sarah Ann Reith (Reid on image) Gender: Male Where born: West Bromwich Civil Parish: Manchester County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 11 Back Lime Street Education:
Employment status: View image Occupation: Scholar Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Ancoats ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3982 Folio: 27 Page Number: 47 Household Members: Name Age William Reith 27 Sarah Ann Reith 26 (actually 36 on image), Lingerwick, (Tingewick) Bucks. John Smith 13 Emily Bradbury 18
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Unknown
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21 May 2014 11:11 |
I now feel I have found out about Eliza and Lydia. Thankyou all so much for your help! But what about Horatio? After another fruitless trawl through census data, I thought I would look at his wife, Sarah A Holton. 1861 Census, Sarah Ann Holton lived at 123, Brook Street, West Bromwich. Her place of birth is incorrectly transcribed as Kingsditch, Buckinghamshire. 1851 Census, Sarah Ann and her family were living in Tingewick, Buckinghamshire confirming Sarah's year of birth as 1844. 1871 census: Sarah Smith is living at 12 Brook Street West Bromwich (correct place and year of birth). She has 2 children, Ann M b.1866 and John b.1869. So Horatio wasn't at home on the night of the 1871 census. No wonder I couldn't find him!
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Unknown
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20 May 2014 19:35 |
ArgyllGran thank you so much, sadly I think this is her. 3 Living members of our family are diagnosed with Autism or Asperger's Syndrome. I have already found 2 Ancestors in Asylums, so this will be the third. Thank goodness people who view the World differently are part of Society today, not just locked away.
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ArgyllGran
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20 May 2014 13:03 |
Just a long shot - a possible death if she never married:
Deaths Mar 1907 (>99%) SMITH Lydia 67 W. Bromwich 6b 560
As her YOB varies 1840-45 in the censuses 1851-81, maybe this could be her in 1901?? Sad if it is, and you'd think some of her large family could have looked after her:
1901 England Census about Lydia Smith Name: Lydia Smith Age: 54 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation to Head: Inmate Gender: Female Birth Place: Tipton, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: Sedgley Ecclesiastical parish: Upper Gornal St Peter County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Registration district: Dudley Sub-registration district: Sedgley ED, institution, or vessel: Dudley Union Workhouse Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2739 Folio: 147 Page Number: 27 Household schedule number: 1
(Large numbers of inmates)
And another long shot, for 1891:
1891 England Census about Lydia Smith Name: Lydia Smith Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846 Relation: Housekeeper Gender: Female Where born: Septon, Staffordshire, England (Tipton) Civil Parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas Town: Aston Manor County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration district: Aston Sub-registration district: Aston Manor ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2428 Folio: 87 Page Number: 38 Household Members: Name Age Joseph B Brookes 32 Kate E Brookes 8 Frank C Brookes 1 Lydia Smith 45
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ArgyllGran
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20 May 2014 12:24 |
Re 1881 census, you say you can't find Lydia J, and that Eliza is with her sister Ann Matilda Bayliss.
In fact, it's Lydia who's with the Baylisses, and I've already posted Eliza J with her mother and John N in 1881 (19th May, 23:03):
1881 England Census about Lydia J. Smith Name: Lydia J. Smith Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Relationship to Head: Sister in Law Gender: Female Where born: Princes End, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: West Bromwich County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: 19 Oakwood St Occupation: Dress Maker Registration district: West Bromwich Sub-registration district: West Bromwich North East ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2848 Folio: 41 Page Number: 26 Household Members: Name Age Thomas J. Bayliss 28 Ann M. Bayliss 29 Sarah A. Bayliss 1 Lydia J. Smith 36 Lydia Bayliss
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Unknown
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20 May 2014 11:01 |
I have tried looking under Horatio and Horace in the census returns but have found nothing after 1861. Yet on the family search (Mormon) site there are a large number of Horace/Horatio smiths! I can't understand why Horace or Horatio doesn't come up when I search census returns.
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ErikaH
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20 May 2014 10:20 |
I doubt that the different wife's maiden name will make any difference to your search for Horatio - the forenames are the same
I can't see him in any census after 1861
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Unknown
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20 May 2014 10:05 |
Thank you so much for all your support! This is the first time I posted anything, so I wasn't sure how much detail to include. Here is some more information, mainly from census returns.
Horatio Smith. You have helped me find my error! I had him married to Sarah Ann Hughes and so wasn't able to find him after 1871. Will try to find him now in 1871 census! (and his descendants!) with wife Sarah Ann.
Lydia Julia Smith. I have found her on the 1861 and 1871 census working as a dressmaker in West Bromwich. I think she must have married before 1881 as she is missing from the census, but am again struggling...have tried to follow many threads about who she married, and have only found dead ends.
Eliza J Smith. Also a dressmaker, living with her sister Ann Matilda Bayliss on 1881 census, but can't find Eliza after this!
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mgnv
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20 May 2014 05:17 |
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1863 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference SMITH Horatio HOLTON Sarah A West Bromwich, All Saints Sandwell Register Office 22/10/142
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ArgyllGran
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19 May 2014 23:27 |
This Horatio would be the right age at death:
Deaths Jun 1899 (>99%) Smith Horatio 63 Aston 6d 146
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ArgyllGran
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19 May 2014 23:15 |
A tree on Ancestry says this is Horatio's marriage.
Marriages Dec 1863 (>99%) Holton Sarah Ann W Bromwich 6b 1027 Smith Horatio W Bromwich 6b 1027
How much of this info have you already got, Linda? No point in us finding stuff you already know!
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ErikaH
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19 May 2014 23:11 |
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place JOHN SMITH HEAD - Male 58 1813 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ELIZA SMITH WIFE - Female 57 1814 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription LYDIA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 30 1841 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription JOHN N SMITH SON - Male 29 1842 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription THOS H SMITH SON - Male 27 1844 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ELIZA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 25 1846 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ANN M SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 22 1849 - STAFFORDSHIRE
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ErikaH
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19 May 2014 23:08 |
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place JOHN SMITH HEAD MARRIED Male 48 1813 COAL DEALER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ELIZA SMITH WIFE MARRIED Female 47 1814 - SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription HORATIS SMITH SON UNMARRIED Male 25 1836 LEGER CLERK SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription PHOBE A SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 23 1838 HOUSEMAID SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription LYDIA J SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 21 1840 DRESSMAKER TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription JOHN N SMITH SON UNMARRIED Male 19 1842 RAILWAY CLERK TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription THOMAS H SMITH SON UNMARRIED Male 17 1844 MACHINE CLERK TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ELIZA J SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 15 1846 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ANN G SMITH GRANDDAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 13 1848 SCHOLAR WEST BROMWICH, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ANN M SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 12 1849 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
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ArgyllGran
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19 May 2014 23:07 |
Maybe???
Deaths Dec 1883 (>99%) SMITH Eliza Jane 34 W. Bromwich 6b 485
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ErikaH
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19 May 2014 23:06 |
How did you work back to these people?
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ArgyllGran
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19 May 2014 23:03 |
Eliza J and John N in 1881 - although her YOB's a bit out:
1881 England Census about John N. Smith Name: John N. Smith Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844 Relationship to Head: Son Mother: Eliza Smith Gender: Male Where born: Tipton, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: West Bromwich County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: 29 Trinity Rd Education:
Employment status: View image Occupation: Warehouseman Registration district: West Bromwich Sub-registration district: West Bromwich South West ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2842 Folio: 27 Page Number: 45 Household Members: Name Age Eliza Smith 67 John N. Smith 37 Eliza J. Smith 28
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ArgyllGran
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19 May 2014 22:59 |
For our ref:
1861 England Census about Horatio Smith Name: Horatio Smith Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: 1836 Relation: Son Father's Name: John Smith Mother's name: Eliza Smith Gender: Male Where born: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: West Bromwich Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: West Bromwich Sub-registration district: West Bromwich North East ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 125 Piece: 2030 Folio: 15 Page Number: 24 Household Members: Name Age John Smith 48 Eliza Smith 47 Horatio Smith 25 Phebe A Smith 23 Lydia J Smith 21 John N Smith 19 Thomas H Smith 17 Eliza J Smith 15 Ann E Smith 12 Ann M Smith 12
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ErikaH
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19 May 2014 22:59 |
For INFO
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place JOHN SMITH HEAD MARRIED Male 38 1813 BLAST FURNACE MANAGER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ELIZA SMITH WIFE MARRIED Female 37 1814 - SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription EDWARD G SMITH SON - Male 16 1835 PUDLER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription HORATIO SMITH SON - Male 15 1836 SHOEMAKER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription PHOEBE A SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 13 1838 SCHOLAR SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription LYDIA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 11 1840 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription JOHN NAPOLEAN SMITH SON - Male 9 1842 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription THOMAS HY SMITH SON - Male 7 1844 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ELIZA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 5 1846 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription ANN M SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 2 1849 - TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
House Name PRINCES END
Parish TIPTON City - County Staffordshire Hamlet - Parliamentary Borough - Municipal Ward - Registration District DUDLEY Archive Reference HO107 Piece Number 2029 Folio 32 Page 57
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