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Rose Alice Briggs was the mother of Ray Jones who was born at 22 Beechwood Road, Great Barr, Birmingham in 1940. On Ray's certificate it says that she was previously married to a Mr. Wale and then she married George H Jones of Birmingham. I can't find a record of either marriage.

I can only find a Rose Alice Briggs born 1915 in NORTH BIERLEY Yorkshire. The only death is for a Rose Jones born 1911, died 1944 in Birmingham. The date and place of her death seems to be right.

Please cam you help me to find her. She's the last link in my trail.

Dianne

Hello Dianne, could you give us the exact wording from the column for the mother's name on Ray's birth certificate. Thanks.

This is the only birth I'm finding that roughly matches the info you give:

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1940
JONES Raymond Briggs Wednesbury 6b 1724

Hi Celeste,

Yes, this is Ray's birth certificate.

I haven't seen the birth certificate myself but this is an email I got from Ray's adopted sister -

Registered on 10th Dec 1940. name just Raymond father George, mother Rose Alice Jones late Wale formerly Briggs. born at 22 Beechwood Rd Great Barr. Father's occupation Silver Polisher, Says Adopted at the side.

I'm wondering about this lady, the area is about right - she would have been 41 when he was born?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Rose Alice Briggs
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1899
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 18

There is this birth for a Rose Alice Briggs although I can't find her in the 1911 census:-

Name: BRIGGS, Rose Alice
Registration district: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Year of registration: 1899
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 6D
Page no: 18

Kath. x

Here she is in 1901 with grandparents:-

1901 census transcription details for: 108, Albert Road, Handsworth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 2711
Folio: 37
Page: 21
Reg. District: West Bromwich
Sub District: Handsworth
Parish: Handsworth
Enum. District: 24
Ecclesiastical District: St James
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 108, Albert Road, Handsworth
County: Staffordshire

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

BRIGGS, Sarah A Head Married F 44 1857 Allowance From Husband
Worcester
BRIGGS, Charles A Son Single M 19 1882 Jeweller
Birmingham, Warwickshire
BRIGGS, Sarah A Daughter Single F 16 1885 Stud Solderer
Scotland Glasgow
BRIGGS, William Son M 14 1887 Office Boy
Scotland Glasgow
BRIGGS, Bernard Son M 10 1891
B'ham, Warwickshire
BRIGGS, Rose Alice Grand Daughter F 2 1899
B'ham, Warwickshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Kath. x

I see some of the family above were born in Scotland. Do you think Rose could have gone to Scotland at some point and married Mr. Wale there?

Have you looked at Scotlandpeople.

Kath. x

Household transcription
1911 census


Person: BRIGGS, Sarah Ann
Address: 54 Factory Road Birmingham

BRIGGS, Sarah Ann Head Widow F 50 1861 Housekeeper Worstershire Worester VIEW
BRIGGS, William Son Single M 23 1888 Jewellers Diamond Setter Glasgow Scotland VIEW
BRIGGS, Sarah Ann Daughter Single F 25 1886 Jewellers Silver Solderer Glasgow Scotland VIEW
BRIGGS, Bernard Son Single M 20 1891 Cycle Enumeller Warwickshire Bham VIEW
BRIGGS, Rusie Granddaughter Single F 12 1899 School Birmingham VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 18041
Reference: RG14PN18041 RG78PN1096 RD384 SD2 ED9 SN189
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub District: All Saints
Enumeration District: 9
Parish: Birmingham
Address: 54 Factory Road Birmingham
County: Warwickshire

This age on this death would match up with the year of birth of the Rose born 1899. Staffordshire was where Rose was in 1901:-

Name: JONES, Rose A
Registration district: Wednesbury
County: Staffordshire
Year of registration: 1943
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 44
Volume no: 6B
Page no: 943

EDIT - just realised this is the same registration district where Raymond's birth was registered. Perhaps he was adopted because his mother died??

Kath. x

1891 England Census
about Sarah A Briggs Name:Sarah A Briggs
Age:34
Estimated birth year:abt 1857
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:Jerome Briggs
Gender:Female
Where born:Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish:Birmingham

Household Members:


Jerome Briggs 37
Sarah A Briggs 34
Albert T Briggs 13
Joseph L Briggs 11
Charles A Briggs 9
Sarah A Briggs 6
William Briggs 4
Bernard Briggs 3/12

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Jerome Briggs Name:Jerome Briggs
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1876
Registration district:Birmingham
Inferred County:Warwickshire
Volume Number:6d
Page Number:325
Records on Page:

Jerome Briggs
Sarah Ann Devoy

If the above is the correct family this is the marriage of Jerome and Sarah:-


Name: BRIGGS, Jerome
Registration district: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Year of registration: 1876
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 6D
Page no: 325

MarriageFinder: Jerome Briggs married one of the following people:

DEVOY, Sarah Ann<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
KELLY, Ann
PARRY, George

EDIT - Snap, lol.

Kath. x

???

1901 England Census
about Jerome Briggs Name:Jerome Briggs
Age:49
Estimated birth year:abt 1852
Relation to Head:Boarder
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Scotland
Civil Parish:Aston
Ecclesiastical parish:St Lawrence
County/Island:Warwickshire
Country:England
Street address:Occupation:


Registration district:Aston
Sub-registration district:Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel:30
Household Members:

Daniel Drew 56
Alice Drew 46
Ernest Drew 18
Gertrude Drew 20
Jerome Briggs 49

??
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Jerome Briggs Name:Jerome Briggs
Estimated birth year:abt 1856
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1907
Age at Death:51
Registration district:Birmingham
Inferred County:Warwickshire
Volume:6d
Page:30


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Jerome Briggs Name:Jerome Briggs
Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1854
Registration district:Birmingham
Inferred County:Warwickshire
Volume:6d
Page:129

There are several Wale MMN Briggs births registered Walsall from 1922 to 1934

But no sign of a marriage

Roy

1881 England Census
about Jemome Briggs Name:Jemome Briggs
Age:27
Estimated birth year:abt 1854
Relationship to Head:Head
Spouse:Sarah Ann Briggs
Gender:Male
Where born:Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish:Birmingham
County/Island:Warwickshire
Country:England
Street address:Court 37 No 7 272 Summer Lane
Marital Status:Married
Occupation:Carpenter

Registration district:
Birmingham

Sub-registration district:
St George


Household Members:


Jemome Briggs 27
Sarah Ann Briggs 24
Albert Briggs 4
Joseph L. Briggs 2
Catherine M. J. Lane 36 (Aunt)

Perhaps she didn't actually marry either of the so called husbands. Lots of births were registered around that time as if the parents were married - even though they weren't. My in-laws did this to name just one couple!!

Kath. x

My goodness. You have been so busy. I can't thank you enough. This is a lot to digest.

Dianne

I just saw your note about this thread in your thread on Raymond

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1337677

Porkie Pie notes the Wale-Briggs births in Walsall 1922-1934

one of them (the first boy) was a Thomas H Wale 1930

this could be the death of the father, age and date would fit with facts about Raymond's birth

Deaths Jun 1936
Wale Thomas H 40 Wednesbury 6b 799

possibly him in 1911

Name: Thomas Henry Wale
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Son
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Street address: 21 Hingeston St Hockley B'ham
Occupation: Maker Up
Registration district: Birmingham

Thomas Henry Wale 48
Sarah Ann Wale 49
Lily Wale 22
Thomas Henry Wale 15
John Alfred Wale 13
Winifred May Wale 8

father and eldest daughter and two sons are employed in Jewellery business



There are two trees at mundia.com that show Dennis Bernard Wale 1931 Walsall
one shows brother Tom died 2004

neither shows parents, but Dennis died in Scotland in 1986

the tree owners can be contacted via that site (free) or Ancestry

someone here at this site has a Dennis Wale born 1930 Cradley Heath which is a district of Birmingham, but there is no such birth in the index and Dennis B Wale 1931 (mother Briggs) is the closest match


if the indications here are correct, Dennis and his brother and sisters would be half-siblings of Raymond

Births Jun 1922
Wale Marjorie W Briggs Walsall 6b 1271

Name: Marjorie Winifred Griffin
Birth Date: 11 May 1922
Date of Registration: Jul 1986
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 34
Page: 298

Marriages Mar 1940
Griffin Ernest F Wale Wednesbury 6b 2331
Wale Marjorie W Griffin Wednesbury 6b 2331

two births to that marriage, in Wednesbury

puts the Wale-Briggs children in the same place as Raymond's birth in 1944


Births Mar 1922
Griffin Ernest F Webster Walsall 6b 1430

I suspect that Mr Griffin died after 2007
http://www.192.com/atoz/people/griffin/ernest/ws4/2450563455/

... perhaps ...

http://www.bmdsonline.co.uk/514058

"GRIFFIN Ernest. Passed away 12th February. Sadly missed by neighbours of Bickley Road and Dean Road."

Bickley Road matches with the 2002-2008 electoral roll listing at 192.com when a search is done using that address

I believe this is the death of their younger child

Name: Keith Griffin
Birth Date: 3 Feb 1947
Date of Registration: Nov 2000
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Register Number: A38C
District and Subdistrict: 3011A
Entry Number: 135

he probably married in Walsall in 1967

The older child probably married in Wednesbury and this is probably him

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/griffin/ernest/ws9/1720888994/

also listed here

http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/search.publisha?Surname=griffin&x=0&y=0&Location=WALSALL++{+-+WEST+MIDLANDS}&OriginalLocation=walsall&Range=xloc

that person would be his nephew, son of his half-sister (edit, just to be clear, Raymond's nephew)


this is all in aid of finding living family of Raymond which I think might be a goal?

particularly because Raymond's four older half-siblings (if the four Wales-Briggs births were indeed his half siblings as it seems) were children of his mother Rose Alice Briggs