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Thanks for looking K.
This mystery has been ongoing for 15 years or more & there are at least half a dozen of us looking for the marriage.
Either they didn´t marry, which seems unlikely, or they married away from Worcestershire although I have done countless general searches & found nothing.
Thank you for trying anyway.

Marion

Ok Thanks K

The siblings of Jane I have as Martha, Maria and Elizabeth (from baptism records) and a James who I have managed to follow through on the census.

Think this is one where I am not going to be able to put to bed unfortunately, but thank you very much for trying

I wont ask you to find Ann's husbands family the Taylors......Father was just listed as John Taylor dec'd :-(

Thank you for your help Kay, very kind of you to give your time up.
Beverley

Just returned from the Hive, but it wasn’t very successful

Marion – I checked the Marriage Index that lists all marriages in the county pre 1837 and there was no marriage for John Sewell and Elizabeth on the Index which you can search both on the groom and bride’s surname.

Reggie - Sorry I couldn’t see your Joseph Knott and Sarah on the marriage index

Jax - When her daughter Ann Howell was baptised in 1823 her mother Jane listed as living as a servant at London Road . I checked for bastardy bonds and there are no records at the Hive for the date. There are older ones re 1800 but there are very few bonds for Worcester that appear to have survived.
Re the marriage of Jane Howells and William Jobbins in 1834 both are described as of the Parish of St Johns. Witnesses were David Hughes and Mary Howells (Did Jane have a sister Mary?). The only other possible marriages for Jane Howel/s on the marriage index are Jane Howell to Thomas Walter Harris at Kempsey on 13 Dec 1825 and Jane Howell to Jeremiah Newson on 24 March 1823 which is really too early

Was more successful with John Henry Howells. The marriage in 1863 lists his father’s name as Jacob Howell Cab Proprietor. Whilst I didn’t find a baptism for John, but I think he is the son of Jacob and Martha Howell b 1801 living with other children in Worcester in 1841. There are possible deaths for both in 1846 in Worcester on Free BMD and their daughter Charlotte b 1840 was also in the workhouse in 1851. I think Jacob was born in Cheltenham so maybe it is a coincidence John ended working for the Jobbins or maybe they are related in some way.

Re John Skinner the only marriage that I could see for him was on 3 Oct 1814 at Claines of John Skinner to Mary Shaw both of the Parish with witnesses Joseph Ellis and Mary ? So to early to be Ann's father or a liaison with a married man?

Have replied to the people who sent me messages by pm and will be going back to check info for others if I can help any more

Kay

Thanks

Look forward to perhaps having this mystery solved :-)

I'll check the marriage, look for a baptism for John and maybe a bastardy bond?

Kay

Ummm

If that is my Jane, maybe John Howell is an illigitamate son of Ann her daughter my 2x gt grandmother?

I see he says his name is John Henri (y) Arnold Howell in 1911....Arnold could be fathers surname?

From what I can see Jane only had one brother (James) and he didn't seem to marry so I doubt that John is anything to do with him.....so he has to be an illegitimate son of someone....Ann looks to be the best candidate as it seemed the norm to hand them over to grandparents back then

This looks to be his marriage but no fathers are mentioned


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
about John Henry Howell
Name:
John Henry Howell

Gender:
Male
Marriage Date:
16 Aug 1863
Marriage Place:
Claines,Worcester,England
Spouse:
Alice Hyde
FHL Film Number:
0352032-0352034, 352035

Jax - A bastardy order is definitely a possibility and I will have a look

The only John Howell that I can see in 1851 in Worcester was living as a pauper age 8 born Whistones, Worcester in the Worcester Workhouse in St Martins. Another person to investigatet!

I do love a puzzle :-D

Kay

Kay, thanks! Yes I have used that hanleyswan website before - it's very good!

Jude

I was looking at that John H A Howell and wondering who he belonged to last night...yes that's the only John Skinner I found unless of course Ann's father died before 1841? If it is him he was probably married at the time, maybe there is a barstardly order?

Hello Jude

The Hive does have the Parish Records for Hanley Castle, but at the moment I am at a loss to think of any of the records that would help with when the couple split

The cottage they were living in at the time of the 1851 census appears unnamed but the cottages before were in Malvern Road and the one after was Belmont Cottage.

You may find of interest the Worcestershire Hanley Castle enclosure map project including a modern detailed maps and a 1852 map of the parish . The parish covered a huge area including Hanley Swan.
http://gis.worcestershire.gov.uk/website/HanleyCastleMapping/

Juggling the map and the census I think Malvern Road might well be the modern Wells Road leading from Malvern Wells to Great Malvern

Kay

PS The Hanleys Website might also be of interest
http://hanleyswan.net/history/

Hello Jax

The marriage at St John's Bredwardine Worcester is over the bridge from Worcester City Centre so half a mile away from the centre. I think this is the family in 1851 living back in central Worcester at Carden Street, In1861 Jane is listed as born St Swithin Worcester and a John H A Howell apprentice b 1842 Worcester is living with them. Possibly a relation? As this Jane lists her birth as St Swithin I can check the register to see if there is another Jane.

JOBBINS, William Head Married M 45 1806 Tailor Employee 1 Man
Kingwood, Wiltshire
JOBBINS, Jane Wife Married F 46 1805
Worcestershire
JOBBINS, William P K Son Single M 14 1837 Scholar
Worcestershire
JOBBINS, Edward Peter Son Single M 10 1841 Scholar
Worcestershire
JOBBINS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 4 1847
Worcestershire
Piece: 2042 Folio: 591 Page: 10
Registration District: Worcester
Civil Parish: Blockhouse Extra Parochial
Municipal Borough: Worcester
Address: 24, Carden Street, Blockhouse Extra Parochial, Worcester
County: Worcestershire

Re John Skinner - have you seen this John Skinner in 1841 listed as a glover. Although listed as Claines the parishes were very different at the time and this is just to the north of Worcester centre next to the present day racecourse at Pitchcroft

SKINNER, John M 45 1796 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Mary F 45 1796 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Elizabeth F 18 1823 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Meriah F 16 1825 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Joseph M 14 1827 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Sophia F 12 1829 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Caswell M 8 1833 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Hannah F 6 1835 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Caroline F 4 1837 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Samuel M 2 1839 Worcestershire
SKINNER, Aron M 1 (15 months) 1840 Worcestershire
Piece: 1209 Book/Folio: 5B/9 Page: 10
Registration District: Worcester
Civil Parish: Claines
Municipal Borough: Worcester
Address: Lower Moors, West, Claines, Whistones, Worcester
County: Worcestershire

Sorry that I am doing so much before I go, but I find it helps to define exactly where I will look and also helps understand the family

Kay

Hi Kay

Do they hold records for Hanley Castle?

In 1851 I have this census

Name: George Hyde
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Hyde
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Hanley Castle, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Hanley Castle
Ecclesiastical parish: Malvern Wells St Peter
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration District: Upton On Severn
Sub-registration District: Hanley
ED, institution, or vessel: 7c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 109
Piece: 2043
Folio: 246
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hyde 32
Elizabeth Hyde 32

I can't make out the address on the image :-(

By 1858 George is marrying bigamously in Australia and 12 months later Elizabeth marries bigamously in Hanley Castle (to George William Leacey).

Just wondered if it was possible to work out when George and Elizabeth parted.

No hurry - as everyone else says "they are not going anywhere"!!!!!

Jax - :-D :-D :-D :-D - as my elder daughter hit 30 this week I am feeling particularly old :-)

No I hadn't got that marriage it would fit with Jane's baptism in St Martin 1806

Is this the marriage you mean?



Jane Howells, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "




Name: William Jobbins
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Jane Howells
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 04 Dec 1834
Event Place: St John Parish, Bedwardine, Worcester, England
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01168-9
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 394852
Reference ID:

Not knowing Worcester at all No idea if these places are near to each other

Yes that's my lovely little granddaughter.......although I am far too young to be a grandmother :-D

Hi Jan

That is a mystery and I will have a ferret around and see if I can find anything.

Presumably you have seen the marriage of a Jane Howells to William Jobbins in 1836 in St Peter's - with the 1851 census listing her as born 1805 in Worcestershire. However even if it is her it doesn't help with John Skinner.

Thanks for thinking of my Anstee's I really must get back to them. :-)

Kayx

PS - Cute avatar - Almost as good as you in pigtails :-)

I have this one that has me wondering

Ann Howell born 1823 baptised St Peters Worcester only mother Jane Howell named on baptism

When she marries John Taylor in 1846 she names John Skinner a Glover as her father??

She was living with her grandmother in 1841 in St Martins and no sign of mother Jane nor can I see a marriage for her to perhaps a Skinner

So if it is not too much to ask to find out where this John Skinner fits in, I will be extremely grateful

Thank you

ps I still am wondering whether my Hertfordshire Anstee's are connected to your lot

Sorry Kay & apologies to Jan.
Yes Kay, they had their first 2 or 3 children in Old Swinford, then moved to Birmingham where the rest of the children were born.
I know that there was a family of Harringtons in Old Swinford at the time, but can´t link Elizabeth to them.
Any time will do. Have been trying to pin them down for 20 years. They´re certainly not going anywhere.
Marion

Hi Reggie

I will look next time I go - possibly next week

Kay

K

What a generous offer.....may I request your assistance?

If you have time, would you see if you can locate a marriage between a Joseph Knott and Sarah Ann ?

Children of whom I am aware were baptized at St Martin, Worcester from 1807 onwards - I'm hoping that the marriage would have been in the same Church.

Anything you can find would be truly appreciated - and there's no rush. They aren't going anywhere!

Thanks very much Kay, much appreciated. I decided to use my brain and check out Coningsby Drive on google streetview, and the houses look quite recent - certainly newer than the 1950's. So please don't trouble yourself next time as I suspect it didn't exist back then.

I am assuming Marion's query is aimed at you rather than me?.

Jan x