Find Ancestors

I have been helping a friend research their family tree. We are looking at the family of George Herbert Gill (b.1886, Pilsley, Derbyshire - died, 1968, Pontefract) and his family.

His parents Samuel GILL (b.1865, Stanley, W Yorkshire ) and Maria Ann BACON (b.1867, Whitwick, Leics) state on the 1911 census that they have had 11 live births but only 9 are stated as being alive in 1911.

By tracking them back in the 1911, 1901 and 1891 census we have discovered only 8 of these:- George Herbert (b.1886), Mary Jane (b.1887), Maria Ann (b.1896), Samuel (b. 1894), John (b.1897) all born in Pilsley, Louisa (b.1899), Ann (b.1903, in Mexborough) and James William (b. 1908 in Fryston)

We would like to find details of the other 3 (especially the other one would would seem to be still alive in 1911) - we have tried Free BMD.

I realise that two of them may have been born and died between the censuses, but would like to try and trace details re the ninth one who survived.

Many thanks for any help you are able to give.
Thank you
Barbara

PS - At the time of the 1911 census, they are at 12 Smith Street, Fryston, Nr Castleford, West Yorkshire.

Have you systematically looked at all the possible births in the gaps between the births that you have found, in the appropriate areas, and then looked for corresponding deaths?

If there are too many of these, and they only show on free bmd not any local registers, then the only way would be to buy a lot of certificates.

Have you looked for the missing person staying at grandparents or other relatives?

Have you made contact with anyone who has this family in their trees on here - just in case they are descended from the 'missing' sibling?

Baptisms for some of the children:-

Samuel Gill
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 22 December 1895 Pilsley, Derbyshire, England
residence: Pilsley (near Chesterfield), Derbyshire, England
father: Samuel Gill
mother: Maria Anne

John Gill
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 March 1897 Pilsley, Derbyshire, England
residence: Pilsley (near Chesterfield), Derbyshire, England
father: Samuel Gill
mother: Maria

Maria Anne Gill
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 17 April 1892 Pilsley, Derbyshire, England
father: Samuel Gill
mother: Maria Anne

George Herbert Gill
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 21 September 1887 PILSLEY NEAR CHESTERFIELD, DERBY, ENGLAND
residence: Pilsley (near Chesterfield), Derbyshire, England
father: Samuel Gill
mother: Maria

Mary Jane Gill
England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1538-1910
christening: 21 January 1887 Pilsley, Pilsley, Derbyshire, England
father: Samuel Gill
mother: Maria Ann Gill

Mary Jane Gill
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 21 September 1887 PILSLEY NEAR CHESTERFIELD, DERBY, ENGLAND
residence: Pilsley (near Chesterfield), Derbyshire, England
father: Samuel Gill
mother: Maria

This seems to be Maria in 1911, now married:-

1911 England Census about Maria Ann Knowling
Name: Maria Ann Knowling
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Pilsley, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Ferry Fryston
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 18 School St Fryston Castleford
Marital Status: Married
Registration District: Pontefract
Registration District Number: 505
Sub-registration District: Knottingley
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 27450
Household Members:
Name Age
George Henry Knowling 23
Maria Ann Knowling 21
George William Knowling 2

..........................................................

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935 about Maria Ann Gill
Name: Maria Ann Gill
Birth Year: abt 1889
Age: 19
Marriage or Bann Date: 2 May 1908
Parish: Ferry Fryston, St Andrew (Ferrybridge)
Father's Name: Samuel Gill
Spouse's Name: George Henry Knowling
Spouse's Father's Name: George Knowling

Just for ref:-

1891
Herbert Gill 6
Mary J Gill 4
Maria A Gill 1
.................................................

1901 (correct family)
George H White 19
Maria White 12
Samuel White 7
John White 5
Louisa White 2
..............................................

1911
GILL, George Herbert Son Single M 25 1886 Miner Hewer Pilsley Derbyshire VIEW

GILL, Samuel Son Single M 17 1894 Miner Ponydriver Belowground Pilsley Derbyshire VIEW

GILL, John Son Single M 14 1897 Miner Lamp Cleaner Aboveground Pilsley Derbyshire VIEW

GILL, Lousia Daughter Single F 12 1899 Pilsley Derbyshire VIEW

GILL, Ann Daughter F 8 1903 Mexborough Yks VIEW

GILL, James William Son M 3 1908 Fryston Yks

.........................................

(Mary Jane is missing from the census records after 1891)

1891 the family are living Reg.Dist. Chesterfield:-

Gill births (reg.dist. Chesterfield) show births:-

Births Sep 1881 (>99%)
Gill Percy Robinson Chesterfield 7b 641

Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
GILL Gertrude Chesterfield 7b 747

................and following deaths:-

Deaths Dec 1881 (>99%)
Gill Percy Robinson 0 Chesterfield 7b 378

Deaths Sep 1883 (>99%)
GILL Gertrude 0 Chesterfield 7b 341

.................so these are two possible children. Unfortunately the only way to find out if these are the children of Samuel and Maria is to buy the birth certificates.

More possible children:-

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Gill Albert Henry Chesterfield 7b 764
Deaths Sep 1893 (>99%)
Gill Albert Henry 0 Chesterfield 7b 440

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
Gill Dominic Chesterfield 7b 717
Deaths Sep 1896 (>99%)
Gill Dominic 0 Chesterfield 7b 403

Births Mar 1897 (>99%)
Gill Harold Chesterfield 7b 783
Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
Gill Harold 1 Chesterfield 7b 492

Births Sep 1896 (>99%)
Gill Selina Chesterfield 7b 771
Deaths Dec 1898 (>99%)
Gill Selina 2 Chesterfield 7b 422

Births Dec 1898 (>99%)
Gill Gladys Chesterfield 7b 739
Deaths Dec 1899 (>99%)
Gill Gladys 1 Chesterfield 7b 443

Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
Gill Elizabeth Ann Chesterfield 7b 675
Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
Gill Elizabeth Ann 5 Chesterfield 7b 551

Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
Gill Victoria May Chesterfield 7b 774
Deaths Mar 1901 (>99%)
Gill Victoria May 0 Chesterfield 7b 480

.................the only way to check these to see which, if any are correct, is to find a baptism record, or as I said earlier to buy the certificates.
Some record offices will do checks for you if you state the name of the parents but here there are so many possibilities they may refuse, but it's worth asking they can only say no.

Parents married 1884 so you can probably (but not definitely) rule out the births prior to that.

Civil Registration event: Marriage

Name: GILL, Samuel
Registration district: Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1884
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 7B
Page no: 1203
MarriageFinder: Samuel Gill married one of the following people:

BACON, Maria <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
SAUNDERS, Elizabeth
BRYAN, Thomas

You could try contacting Derek on his thread, he has parish records for much of Derbyshire and also visits Matlock Records Office

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1191073

Only just logged on today (although as you can see I was on the PC until 2am researching - once I get going, I have to keep on), you know how it is.

Thank you so much for all your help everyone. We go on hols in a couple of days time but I will certainly contact Derek when we get back, if not before

Thank you so much everyone

Barbara

Have printed all the info out (thank you so much for all your help) and will let my friend have a look at it all and see if they want to get certificates etc - Thanks again everyone

Regards
Barbara