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Hello everyone.... sorry to be so long getting back to you... Grandaughter highjacked my time...

Now I agree that we appear to have 2 families here.

Marie I hadn't thought of the possibility of sisters child !!! silly me. Been researching long enough to know better.

Am going to send for the birth cert.... as you all agree . best way.

The general concensus seems to be then that


Jonah's Parents are ?? & Betty...(sister of Hannah)....... & grandparents are Jonah Horsfall & Hannah.

Oh how I miss the old IGI.... Can't make the new one work for me......Used to be able to input parents names & get all issue.!!

Most of this info is from census but some not....... For instance how did you find that Jonah did not name a dad named on Marriage cert.? Where do I find newspapers etc.
Also I see which I never noticed before that there is a John Horsfall in the house of Ezra & Hannah Barker in 1871......Which is why when I read all this that it crossed my mind, that if Jonah's mother was dead pehaps he moved in with sister but found no marriage to suggest that John had been married.

Marie will pm you

Thank you all.... will send for that birth cert & hopefully move "Forward

Margaret.
"

A good possibility for Betty's marriage:

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Elizabeth Horsfall - a weaver
Birth Year: abt 1832
Age: 36
Marriage or Bann Date: 24 Feb 1868
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Father's Name: Jonah Horsfall - Weaver
Spouse's Name: Benjamin Illingworth (41). Widower. A Delver
Spouse's Father's Name: Benjamin Illingworth - a Comber

Both of Allerton.

The witnesses William Holmes and Christopher Gibson are "regulars"

I think this is the correct 1851 for Hannah's father (Jonah junior's grandfather)

HORSFALL, Jonah Head Married M 70 1781 Hand Loom Weaver Worsted Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Hannah Wife Married F 60 1791 Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, John Son Unmarried M 34 1817 Hand Loom Weaver Worsted Thornton, Yorkshire
INGHAM, Hannah Grand Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 Mill Hand Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Betty Head Unmarried F 18 1833 Mill Hand Thornton, Yorkshire

Piece: 2311 Folio: 126 Page: 15
Registration District: Bradford

Address: Last Shift County: Yorkshire (West riding)

They're all in the township of Thornton. Betty does appear to be in a separate household but has been included on the transcription.

Just in case it's of relevance:

Publication:Leeds Times

Publication date:Saturday 12 February 1853

Deaths:"On Sunday age 72, Mr. Jonah Horsfall, of Thornton."

(So that would be death 6 Feb 1853)

Margaret, when you say "I believe that as Jonah is a Horsfall, his father must be Hannah's brother." do bear in mind that Hannah could be his mother's sister - as no father named on Jonah's marriage it's quite likely he was illegitimate.

EDIT: purchasing his birth certificate will at least confirm his mother (I suspect Betty)

Hannah Horsfall's marriage (to confirm her father)

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Hannah Horsfall, of Thornton
Birth Year: abt 1830
Age: 20
Marriage or Bann Date: 24 Oct 1850
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Father's Name: Jonah Horsfall - a Weaver
Spouse's Name: Ezra Barker (20) - a Delver from Allerton
Spouse's Father's Name: Joshua Barker - Farmer

Neither previously married.

Witnesses: William Holmes and Ephraim Smith (Holmes is a witness on another marriage so possibly not related).

So, based on Betty Horsfall's YOB, we have two possible families - one with parents Jonah & Hannah, and the other with parents Thomas & Sally.

You definitely need Jonah's birth cert, as Kathleen said.

Re the 1841 posted by KathleenBell above
here's the same family in 1861.
John & Betty's mother is Hannah (c1792):



1861 England Census about John Horsfall
Name: John Horsfall
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Hannah Horsfall
Gender: Male
Where born: Thornton, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Thornton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration District: Bradford
Sub-registration District: Thornton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 91
Piece: 3336
Folio: 94
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Hannah Horsfall 69
John Horsfall 44 - son
Betty Horsfall 29 - daughter

Thomas, Sarah & family in 1841:


1841 England Census about Thomas Horsfall
Name: Thomas Horsfall
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Thornton
Hundred: Morley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View Image

Registration District: Bradford
Sub-registration District: Thornton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1297
Book: 6
Folio: 27
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Horsfall 35
Sarah Horsfall 30
John Horsfall 11
Betty Horsfall 9
Isaac Horsfall 7
Sarah Horsfall 5
Rachel Horsfall 3

Thank you...... I will study this & get back to you..... Looks promising especially as at some point I found a baptism for Hannah that I dismissed at the time but may be John & Hannah's parents...... Margaret

Did it give a relationship of John to Hannah on the census please?

Here's Hannah (1849) in 1861, with (presumably) her mother Betty (listed as her sister in 1851), now married to Isaac Hainsworth:


1861 England Census about Hannah Horsfall
Name: Hannah Horsfall
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Thornton, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Clayton
Ecclesiastical parish: Queenshead
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration District: Bradford
Sub-registration District: Thornton
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 139
Piece: 3338
Folio: 71
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Hainsworth 32
Betty Hainsworth 29
Edward Hainsworth 2
Emma Hainsworth 9 Months
John Horsfall 31
Sarah Horsfall 25
Rachel Horsfall 23
Thomas Horsfall 18
Nanny Horsfall 15
Hannah Horsfall 11



West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935 about Isaac Hainsworth
Name: Isaac Hainsworth
Birth Year: abt 1829
Age: 26
Marriage or Bann Date: 18 Mar 1855
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Father's Name: John Hainsworth
Spouse's Name: Betty Horsfall
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Horsfall

1871 England Census about John Horsfall
Name: John Horsfall
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Thornton, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Thornton
Ecclesiastical parish: Thornton
Town: Thornton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Bradford
Sub-registration District: Thornton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household Schedule Number: 73
Piece: 4489
Folio: 54
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Ezra Barker 43
Hannah Barkes 45
Greenwood Barker 15 >>>>>>>>>
Mary Barker 17
Jonah Horsfall 7
John Horsfall 55 lodger

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4489; Folio: 54; Page: 14; GSU roll: 847125


>>>Greenwood was a witness on the marriage cert !!!.

His marriage cert should name his father .if known

Name: Jonah Horsfall
Birth Year: abt 1863
Age: 27
Marriage or Bann Date: 25 Oct 1890
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Spouse's Name: Ann Maria Mitchell
Spouse's Father's Name: Stephen Mitchell

occ stone quarrier No father named !!

I think this may be Hannah's sister, Betty, in the 1851 census with their parents:-

1851 census transcription details for: Upper Headley

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 2311
Folio: 147
Page: 22
Reg. District: Bradford
Sub District: Thornton
Parish:
Enum. District: 1G
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Upper Headley
County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

HORSFALL, Thomas Head Married M 46 1805 Wool Comber
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Sally Wife Married F 42 1809
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Betty Daughter Unmarried F 19 1832 Powr Loom Weaver
Thornton, Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
HORSFALL, Isaac Son Unmarried M 17 1834 Wool Comber
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 Power Loom Weaver
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Rachel Daughter F 13 1838 Scholer
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Thomas Son M 8 1843 Errand Boy
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Nanny Daughter F 5 1846
Thornton, Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Hannah Daughter F 2 1849
Thornton, Yorkshire

The only thing that doesn't seem right is that there is a daughter named Hannah born c.1849 when Betty already has a sister called Hannah who married Ezra Barker in 1850???????

I definitely think Jonah's birth certificate is the way to go.

Kath. x

This looks like Hannah in the 1841 census (not much help):-

1841 census transcription details for: Moscow, Bradford, Thornton

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1297
Book/Folio: 8/55
Page: 13
Reg. District: Bradford
Sub District: Thornton
Parish: Bradford
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: Moscow, Bradford, Thornton
County: Yorkshire

Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

HORSFALL, Jonah M 55 1786 Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Hannah F 50 1791 Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Hannah F 14 1827 Yorkshire
HORSFALL, Betty F 8 1833 Yorkshire
-----------------

You may have to buy Jonah's birth certificate for his parent's name's:-


Name: HORSFALL, Jonah
Registration district: Bradford
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1863
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 9B
Page no: 162

Kath. x

I know we have some wonderful sleuths on here, If someone could help I would be very grateful.

I am looking for the parents of Jonah Horsfall born 1863......Here is the information that I have....
Married 1890 to Ann Maria Mitchell in Bradford Yorks. ( Poss Thornton)
Daughter Hannah Elizabeth born 1891 (No issue)

In 1871 & 81 census Jonah is living with his aunt Hannah Horsfall ( c 1827)who is married 1850 to Ezra Barker..

I believe that as Jonah is a Horsfall, his father must be Hannah's brother.

So I am thinking that the 1841 census is where I should find parents/siblings of
Hannah

Proberbly as blind as a bat but I can't find them... maybe another pair of eyes please ? Hopefully this should give me his father & grandparents....

Have tried to explain as clearly as I can
Thankyou in advance for your help

Margaret.