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Margaret in Sussex
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30 Nov 2013 15:36 |
I know we have some wonderful sleuths on here, If someone could help I would be very grateful.
I am looking for the parents of Jonah Horsfall born 1863......Here is the information that I have.... Married 1890 to Ann Maria Mitchell in Bradford Yorks. ( Poss Thornton) Daughter Hannah Elizabeth born 1891 (No issue)
In 1871 & 81 census Jonah is living with his aunt Hannah Horsfall ( c 1827)who is married 1850 to Ezra Barker..
I believe that as Jonah is a Horsfall, his father must be Hannah's brother.
So I am thinking that the 1841 census is where I should find parents/siblings of Hannah
Proberbly as blind as a bat but I can't find them... maybe another pair of eyes please ? Hopefully this should give me his father & grandparents....
Have tried to explain as clearly as I can Thankyou in advance for your help
Margaret.
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KathleenBell
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30 Nov 2013 15:50 |
This looks like Hannah in the 1841 census (not much help):-
1841 census transcription details for: Moscow, Bradford, Thornton
National Archive Reference: RG number: HO107 Piece: 1297 Book/Folio: 8/55 Page: 13 Reg. District: Bradford Sub District: Thornton Parish: Bradford Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Moscow, Bradford, Thornton County: Yorkshire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
HORSFALL, Jonah M 55 1786 Yorkshire HORSFALL, Hannah F 50 1791 Yorkshire HORSFALL, Hannah F 14 1827 Yorkshire HORSFALL, Betty F 8 1833 Yorkshire -----------------
You may have to buy Jonah's birth certificate for his parent's name's:-
Name: HORSFALL, Jonah Registration district: Bradford County: Yorkshire Year of registration: 1863 Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3 Volume no: 9B Page no: 162
Kath. x
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KathleenBell
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30 Nov 2013 16:01 |
I think this may be Hannah's sister, Betty, in the 1851 census with their parents:-
1851 census transcription details for: Upper Headley
National Archive Reference: RG number: HO107 Piece: 2311 Folio: 147 Page: 22 Reg. District: Bradford Sub District: Thornton Parish: Enum. District: 1G Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: Upper Headley County: Yorkshire (West riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
HORSFALL, Thomas Head Married M 46 1805 Wool Comber Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Sally Wife Married F 42 1809 Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Betty Daughter Unmarried F 19 1832 Powr Loom Weaver Thornton, Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< HORSFALL, Isaac Son Unmarried M 17 1834 Wool Comber Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 Power Loom Weaver Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Rachel Daughter F 13 1838 Scholer Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Thomas Son M 8 1843 Errand Boy Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Nanny Daughter F 5 1846 Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Hannah Daughter F 2 1849 Thornton, Yorkshire
The only thing that doesn't seem right is that there is a daughter named Hannah born c.1849 when Betty already has a sister called Hannah who married Ezra Barker in 1850???????
I definitely think Jonah's birth certificate is the way to go.
Kath. x
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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30 Nov 2013 16:06 |
His marriage cert should name his father .if known
Name: Jonah Horsfall Birth Year: abt 1863 Age: 27 Marriage or Bann Date: 25 Oct 1890 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Spouse's Name: Ann Maria Mitchell Spouse's Father's Name: Stephen Mitchell
occ stone quarrier No father named !!
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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30 Nov 2013 16:09 |
1871 England Census about John Horsfall Name: John Horsfall Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Thornton, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Thornton Ecclesiastical parish: Thornton Town: Thornton County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration District: Bradford Sub-registration District: Thornton ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household Schedule Number: 73 Piece: 4489 Folio: 54 Page Number: 14 Household Members: Name Age Ezra Barker 43 Hannah Barkes 45 Greenwood Barker 15 >>>>>>>>> Mary Barker 17 Jonah Horsfall 7 John Horsfall 55 lodger
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4489; Folio: 54; Page: 14; GSU roll: 847125
>>>Greenwood was a witness on the marriage cert !!!.
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ArgyllGran
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30 Nov 2013 16:53 |
Here's Hannah (1849) in 1861, with (presumably) her mother Betty (listed as her sister in 1851), now married to Isaac Hainsworth:
1861 England Census about Hannah Horsfall Name: Hannah Horsfall Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850 Relation: Boarder Gender: Female Where born: Thornton, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Clayton Ecclesiastical parish: Queenshead County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View Image Registration District: Bradford Sub-registration District: Thornton ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 139 Piece: 3338 Folio: 71 Page Number: 26 Household Members: Name Age Isaac Hainsworth 32 Betty Hainsworth 29 Edward Hainsworth 2 Emma Hainsworth 9 Months John Horsfall 31 Sarah Horsfall 25 Rachel Horsfall 23 Thomas Horsfall 18 Nanny Horsfall 15 Hannah Horsfall 11
West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935 about Isaac Hainsworth Name: Isaac Hainsworth Birth Year: abt 1829 Age: 26 Marriage or Bann Date: 18 Mar 1855 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Father's Name: John Hainsworth Spouse's Name: Betty Horsfall Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Horsfall
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Margaret in Sussex
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30 Nov 2013 16:53 |
Thank you...... I will study this & get back to you..... Looks promising especially as at some point I found a baptism for Hannah that I dismissed at the time but may be John & Hannah's parents...... Margaret
Did it give a relationship of John to Hannah on the census please?
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ArgyllGran
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30 Nov 2013 17:02 |
Thomas, Sarah & family in 1841:
1841 England Census about Thomas Horsfall Name: Thomas Horsfall Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806 Gender: Male Where born: Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Thornton Hundred: Morley County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View Image Registration District: Bradford Sub-registration District: Thornton Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1297 Book: 6 Folio: 27 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Horsfall 35 Sarah Horsfall 30 John Horsfall 11 Betty Horsfall 9 Isaac Horsfall 7 Sarah Horsfall 5 Rachel Horsfall 3
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ArgyllGran
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30 Nov 2013 17:25 |
Re the 1841 posted by KathleenBell above here's the same family in 1861. John & Betty's mother is Hannah (c1792):
1861 England Census about John Horsfall Name: John Horsfall Age: 44 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817 Relation: Son Mother's Name: Hannah Horsfall Gender: Male Where born: Thornton, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Thornton County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View Image Registration District: Bradford Sub-registration District: Thornton ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 91 Piece: 3336 Folio: 94 Page Number: 17 Household Members: Name Age Hannah Horsfall 69 John Horsfall 44 - son Betty Horsfall 29 - daughter
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ArgyllGran
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30 Nov 2013 17:30 |
So, based on Betty Horsfall's YOB, we have two possible families - one with parents Jonah & Hannah, and the other with parents Thomas & Sally.
You definitely need Jonah's birth cert, as Kathleen said.
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MarieCeleste
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30 Nov 2013 17:53 |
Hannah Horsfall's marriage (to confirm her father)
West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Hannah Horsfall, of Thornton Birth Year: abt 1830 Age: 20 Marriage or Bann Date: 24 Oct 1850 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Father's Name: Jonah Horsfall - a Weaver Spouse's Name: Ezra Barker (20) - a Delver from Allerton Spouse's Father's Name: Joshua Barker - Farmer
Neither previously married.
Witnesses: William Holmes and Ephraim Smith (Holmes is a witness on another marriage so possibly not related).
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MarieCeleste
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30 Nov 2013 17:59 |
Margaret, when you say "I believe that as Jonah is a Horsfall, his father must be Hannah's brother." do bear in mind that Hannah could be his mother's sister - as no father named on Jonah's marriage it's quite likely he was illegitimate.
EDIT: purchasing his birth certificate will at least confirm his mother (I suspect Betty)
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MarieCeleste
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30 Nov 2013 18:05 |
Just in case it's of relevance:
Publication:Leeds Times
Publication date:Saturday 12 February 1853
Deaths:"On Sunday age 72, Mr. Jonah Horsfall, of Thornton."
(So that would be death 6 Feb 1853)
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MarieCeleste
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30 Nov 2013 18:07 |
I think this is the correct 1851 for Hannah's father (Jonah junior's grandfather)
HORSFALL, Jonah Head Married M 70 1781 Hand Loom Weaver Worsted Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Hannah Wife Married F 60 1791 Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, John Son Unmarried M 34 1817 Hand Loom Weaver Worsted Thornton, Yorkshire INGHAM, Hannah Grand Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 Mill Hand Thornton, Yorkshire HORSFALL, Betty Head Unmarried F 18 1833 Mill Hand Thornton, Yorkshire
Piece: 2311 Folio: 126 Page: 15 Registration District: Bradford
Address: Last Shift County: Yorkshire (West riding)
They're all in the township of Thornton. Betty does appear to be in a separate household but has been included on the transcription.
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MarieCeleste
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30 Nov 2013 18:18 |
A good possibility for Betty's marriage:
West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Elizabeth Horsfall - a weaver Birth Year: abt 1832 Age: 36 Marriage or Bann Date: 24 Feb 1868 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Father's Name: Jonah Horsfall - Weaver Spouse's Name: Benjamin Illingworth (41). Widower. A Delver Spouse's Father's Name: Benjamin Illingworth - a Comber
Both of Allerton.
The witnesses William Holmes and Christopher Gibson are "regulars"
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Margaret in Sussex
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3 Dec 2013 13:21 |
Hello everyone.... sorry to be so long getting back to you... Grandaughter highjacked my time...
Now I agree that we appear to have 2 families here.
Marie I hadn't thought of the possibility of sisters child !!! silly me. Been researching long enough to know better.
Am going to send for the birth cert.... as you all agree . best way.
The general concensus seems to be then that
Jonah's Parents are ?? & Betty...(sister of Hannah)....... & grandparents are Jonah Horsfall & Hannah.
Oh how I miss the old IGI.... Can't make the new one work for me......Used to be able to input parents names & get all issue.!!
Most of this info is from census but some not....... For instance how did you find that Jonah did not name a dad named on Marriage cert.? Where do I find newspapers etc. Also I see which I never noticed before that there is a John Horsfall in the house of Ezra & Hannah Barker in 1871......Which is why when I read all this that it crossed my mind, that if Jonah's mother was dead pehaps he moved in with sister but found no marriage to suggest that John had been married.
Marie will pm you
Thank you all.... will send for that birth cert & hopefully move "Forward
Margaret. "
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