Find Ancestors

wow thats a lot to take in and absorb.
thank so much, your time is really appreciated
best wishes
maddie

just collecting info :-)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW8V-Q43

Name: Hannah Peake
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 07 Jun 1795
Christening Place: EBENEZER-INDEPENDENT, RAMSGATE, KENT, ENGLAND
Birth Date: 30 May 1794
Father's Name: Stephen Peake
Mother's Name: Mary
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C06853-1

searching that batch, that couple also had Ann 1787 (must have died), John 1789, George 1791, Ann 1792 ... but I don't find any record for a Susan* Peake in Kent.

Sarah was 30 years older than Hannah. They must have had different mothers. To marry a widower born c1774 in 1809, Susanne should have been born before 1788 ...

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NNFN-YJG ?

Name: Stephen Peake
Spouse's Name: Mary Dixon
Event Date: 31 Dec 1786
Event Place: St. Lawrence, Kent, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I06790-7

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJ3Z-GQ7

Name: Susannah Peake
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 13 Dec 1772
Christening Place: St. Lawrence, Kent, England
Father's Name: Stephen Peake
Mother's Name: Jane Peake
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I00979-2

and her sister Sarah

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JSQL-6Q7

Name: Sarah Peake
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 03 Feb 1771
Christening Place: St. Laurence, Kent, England
Father's Name: Stephen Peake
Mother's Name: Jane
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I06892-7

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JZLF-ZMF

Name: Susannah White
Gender: Female
Burial Place: Cowes, Hampshire, England
Death Date: 21 Mar 1835
Age: 63
Birth Date: 1772
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B05199-4


and there we are for Susannah Peake White I think:
born in Kent 1772
married to Thomas White the shipbulder in Middlesex in 1809
died in Hampshire 1835

Her parents were Stephen and Jane Peake.
Her half-sister Hannah's mother was Mary Dixon.

There seems to have been some mix-up on Thomas Sr's baptism record showing Hannah as his mother ... unless the mixing up was going on in real life! - edit - oops I meant Thomas Jr's baptism record 1819, his mother should have been Susannah Peake White whose younger sister was Hannah Peake.

but still Susannah would not likely have been your Richard's mother since he was likely born before that 1809 marrage.

so the question is, who was the previous wife of Thomas White Sr, born abt 1774 we don't know where, married the second (?) time in Whitechapel in 1809.

hm

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6GB-T52

Name: Thomas White
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 03 Oct 1819
Christening Place: Newchurch, Hampshire, England
Father's Name: Thomas White
Mother's Name: Hanah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01874-5

I think it's possible for a Susannah to be called Hannah. Could Hannah Peake in 1841 be Susanne Peake from the marriage record to Thomas White, simply recorded under her mother's surname via a not uncommon sort of enumerator misunderstanding?


But here is the household in 1851 in Newchurch, Cowes

Thomas White 77 born Broadstairs Kent, retired shipbuilder
Caroline White 23 granddaughter
Sarah Peake 81 born Manston Kent, sister-in-law unmarried
Hannah Peake 56 born Ramsgate Kent, sister-in-law unmarried
Henry Bell Brown 42 visitor Wesleyan minister
Emily Salter 23 servant
Caroline Beere 17 servant

a possibility ... it happened in my family right around 1820 ... it was illegal for a man to marry his deceased wife's sister. Was Thomas Sr actually partnered with Hannah Peake, the sister of his deceased wife Susanne?

searching in that batch at familysearch

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=+batch_number:C01874-5

finds only the one baptism, Thomas 1819 with parents Thomas and Hanah.

Richard would most likely have been born in Middlesex perhaps.


In 1861 Thomas R White, 41, ship builder, born Cowes, is in Portsmouth with wife Anne and children Elizabeth and Tom.


thiswould seem likely to be the death of Thomas Sr (but something in the data has been mistranscribed)

Deaths Mar 1859
White Thomas I.Wight 2b 331

and the death of Sarah Peake (much older sister of Hannah)

Deaths Mar 1856
Peake Sarah I Wight 2b 292

to which someone has added a postem at freebmd ... and left no contact info !!!

'Isle of Wight Observer (Ryde, England), Saturday, March 01, 1856; Issue 183. at the residence of Thomas White, esq, Medina Docks, Miss Sarah Peake, aged 86 years, respected through life as a consistant Christian.'

that is the only Peake event in Isle of Wight until that point.

You could always add another postem to that record asking for information about the family ... and giving a (permanent) email address :-) It is very possible though that the person who added the info was just a local researcher or some such.

Excellent! and one can only wish you well in tracing your Richard (and Sarah) now :-)

At least you can be pretty sure that there were a Frederick and a Thomas in his family, as brothers or as father and brother. I have not managed to find any trace of them in 1841 or 1851, ... wait, maybe looking in the wrong places

'Atalanta was built by Thomas White, at Cowes, in 1836 and had sleeping berths for 150 passengers'

In 1851 there is a widowed Sarah White 44 born Isle of Wight, in Cowes, whose eldest Harry 21 son is a shipwright's apprentice. But no ... in 1841 they are in Northwood on the Isle of Wight and father George is a brewer ...

Not knowing place names on the Isle of Wight I searched 1841 for White in Hampshire with keyword Wight.

And look what I found.

Name: THOMAS WHITE
Age: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1774
(not born in county)
Civil Parish: Northwood
County/Island: Hampshire
Registration District: Isle of Wight
Sub-registration District: Cowes

Thomas White 67 SHIP BUILDER
Elizabeth White 25
Thomas White 21 Ship Builder
James Beck 23 ditto
Hannah Peake 40 not born in county
Sarah Peake 60 not born in county
Thomas Cornfield 30 Optician
Sophia Coss 18 Female Servant

I would bet that this Thomas Sr was your Richard's father, in fact I would bet quite a lot :-)

unfortunately he seems to be widowed. I wonder whether Sarah Peake was his mother-in-law and Hannah his wife's sister.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJVM-35Q

Name: Thomas White
Spouse's Name: Susanne Peake
Event Date: 02 Apr 1809
Event Place: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Marital Status: Widowed
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00066-5

which would most likely mean that Susanne was not your Richard's mother as he was most likely born before 1809, although dob 1806 in 1851 could have meant as late as early 1811.

Hi JoonieCloonie,
just to let you know it looks like the right Richard
stumbled across Ellen Maria's mariage announcement

Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries

Publication:Hampshire Telegraph
Publication date:Saturday 01 October 1864

Article text:"of Is Thomas Hitt Harvey, of Weymouth, to Ellen Maria, y, eldest daughter of the late Captain Richard White, of C. Southampton. N. HALr-BARNEs-On the 28th ult., at St. John's, Upper h, Holloway, by the Rev. S. D. Stubbs, x.±., Thomas Hale, y, jun., the

Maddie

Morning,
thats the trouble with such a common name trying to link them together.
Will keep me quiet for a while :-)

Hey check this out too (I am supposed to be working but this is more fun)

http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Watersprite

'On Saturday 7 July 1827, under the command of Captain Frederick White, the Watersprite, a 162-ton paddle steamer, arrived at St Helier with the first official mail carried by a steamer.'

Sarah's oldest son in 1841 was called Frederick. So ... father? brother? of Richard?

They all have to be related, Thomas and Frederick and Richard. But there were a lot of Whites in Jersey. :-)

You're very welcome, and it is indeed fascinating, which makes it no trouble at all. :-D

I hope you get the certificate and come back and let us know!

thanks so much, i do need the certificate.
I really appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to help.
Some fascinating info to delve into

best wishes
Maddie

yes, born in England:

1841 in St Helier on vessels, the Atalanta
Rich'd White, 35, Mariner, born England

note that I think I then ruled out that Sarah Compton marriage probably, unfortunately ...

and note that in 1851 and 1861 your Sarah says she is from London Middlesex, not Hampshire


Those articles refer to the original owner of the Atalanta as Thomas White ... father, brother? I looked in censuses for him, only found in 1841 on board the Royal Navy Basker (?) in St Helier, a Robert aged 60 and a Thomas aged 50, born in England, not likely connected.

I wonder whether Thomas was the original owner in 1836 and died.

but this is all surmise and assumption at this point -- the birth certificate for Bernice will give you
both parents' names
father's occupation
and you really need that information before trying to go back any further!

wow, how did you find that :-)
1841 census explains why he is not with the family and the marriage seems highly likely as Sarah was from Hampshire.
Been trying to find 1841 census, does it say whether or not Richard born in county

thank you for all the info, got some interesting reading

regards
Maddie

for info this is Sarah in 1861 in Millbrook Hampshire I think

the page itself is a complete hash with two people entered on each line


Sarah White 50 fundholder born London Middlesex
Allen White 24 this is Ellen, born Jersey
Richard White 13 scholar born Hampshire (I can't read the town)

If she was Sarah Compton, it's too bad she was so free with her age in censuses - she was 36 in 1841 (seems exact since it was supposed to be rounded down to 35), 44 in 1851 and 50 in 1861.

familysearch shows one Sarah Compton baptised 1800 in St Martin in the Fields London but there could have been any number more I imagine

since your Sarah had a child about 1848 she was likely born later than that


I think you can rule out the marriage I suggested earlier
In 1851, Richard White 49 Greenwich Pensioner and Sarah White 46 born in Alverstoke are living in Portsea

That SA archives site is definitely anything but easy to navigate :-)

If you do want to know Ellen's parents' names you need to get a birth certificate for one of the younger children in England. It will at least tell you that child's mother's and father's full names. There is no guarantee that Ellen's parents will be the same but it will give you a starting point to look for marriage, death, etc.

There was a son Richard in the household in 1851

Sarah White 44
Ellen White 15
Bernice White 9
Richard White 3
Mary Ramsey 26
John Ramsey 1 Mo

so father Richard is a possibility ... and he could have died sometime from before son Richard was born up to the 1851 census ...

He could also have been military ... this marriage might be one to consider

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFPQ-7ZH

Name: Richard White
Spouse's Name: Sarah Compton
Event Date: 28 Mar 1826
Event Place: Alverstoke, Southampton, Hampshire, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04160-4

That would make sense as he might have been stationed in St Helier but the couple were actually from Hampshire, or at least Sarah was.

In fact check this out

1841 in St Helier on vessels, the Atalanta
Rich'd White, 35, Mariner, born England

it must have been a steamer carrying passengers to the mainland or some such, since the other people on board include 7 mariners, 4 fireman and a stewardess. Richard seems to have been the master since he is listed first.

(Note that Ancestry has messed up the household as usual - its transcription shows the first person in the 'household' as Louisa Russel a stewardess but in fact she is the last person in the previous list on board the Camilla).


and we google
"the atalanta" jersey helier
and find

http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/The_island_changes

Steamship services
The English immigrants would have nothing of such restrictions and soon cheap but fashionable clothing began to arrive on the new steamship services inaugurated in 1824. By 1840 the growth in the number of ships plying the cross-Channel routes was remarkable.
The Atalanta left Southampton every Tuesday and Friday evening, returning from Jersey every Monday and Thursday. The Lady de Saumarez left Southampton every Monday and Thursday, returning every Wednesday and Saturday. There were also connections twice a week to St Malo and Granville.


and my goodness

http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Watersprite

Race
This account from the Star records a race between the lengthened Watersprite and Atalanta:
"She [Atalanta]is unquestionably one of the finest boats that ever ploughed the British Channel. A trial of speed between her and his Majesty's packet Wildfire, Capt White, Commander, took place on Tuesday, which more than ever served to display the superiority of the Atalanta. The former vessel was some months since lengthened by Messrs White, of Cowes, and new and powerful machinery put into her, by which her speed was so accelerated that Capt White declared he would not fear to run her with the Atalanta. An opportunity offered last Tuesday, both vessels having to start from Jersey for this island at six o'clock in the morning. The weather was remarkably propitious for a trial of this nature, there being scarcely wind enough out to cause a ripple on the water. The Wildfire had six minutes start of the Atalanta, but the latter vessel overtook her a short distance off Corbière Point, and arrived here 16 minutes before her, making a difference of 22 minutes on the passage.


so I change the link to Atalanta from Watersprite and sure enough it has its own page

http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Atalanta

where it says, among other things:

Atalanta was built by Thomas White, at Cowes, in 1836 and had sleeping berths for 150 passengers.
Kevin Le Scelleur, in his definitive work Channel Island Railway Steamers describes Atlanta as 'one of the most famous vessels on the Channel Islands service'.


this has the makings of a theory, what do you think??

if you do that google search

"the atalanta" jersey helier

you will find all kinds of things to read, and also pictures (there is one at the Atalanta page linked above)

check out this newspaper account (from a later date) of the building and launching of the ship for instance

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/3/3b/Er19020328.pdf

thank you for finding his death record for me. I always have trouble sorting out those sort of sites. So the family went back to South Africa. I will have to see if I can find out when.

i found a site yesterday for St Helier and Ellens parents were named as Richard and Sara but couldn't find a marriage on it. Possibly married elsewhere.

thank you all very much
Maddie

Unfortunately the 1841 White household doesn't have a husband either

Name: Sarah A White
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Gender: Female
street address Winchester Terrace
Civil Parish: St Mary
Hundred: Southampton Town
County/Island: Hampshire

Sarah A White 36
E M White 5
Federich White 1
Toben White 3 (probably says John)

so if Sarah was already widowed, or not actually married, she had children after that with someone other than Mr White.

The neighbours include several engineers and a mariner, and the visitor in the White household in 1851 was an engineer's wife. Perhaps if there was a Mr White that is what he was as well (and he was on vessels in the 1841 census).

'his mother was Ellen Maria White, her parents not known as she was born in St Helier in 1836, in 1851 with her mother Sarah White.'

but in 1851 there are other children, a birth certificate for Bernice for instance would give the parents' names

Births Jun 1842
White Bernice Southampton 7 187

although given the gap between Ellen and Bernice it is possible that Ellen was from a previous marriage, either of Sarah or of Sarah's deceased husband

of course the marriage certificate of Ellen Maria White and William Dunning Harvey, South Stoneham 1864, would give Ellen's father's name if she knew and reported it and possibly more details about him.

Here is a reference to Percy's death in South Africa

go here

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

and select

All Archives Repositories and National Registers of non-public records

then search for percy harvey

DEPOT TAB
SOURCE MHG
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 0
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 3201/52
PART 1
DESCRIPTION HARVEY, PERCY MELROSE.
STARTING 19520000
ENDING 19520000
REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE UNA HARVEY.

so he died in 1952

Name: Sarah White
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Gender: Female
Age: 59
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: ...
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Jersey
Sub-District:
Ecclesiastical Parish: Jersey
Parish: St Helier
Residence County: Jersey

yes thats my tree' family came home a few months earlier
maddie

There is a tree on an**** with this man in it ...is this your tree?

he returned alone in 1931