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Frances
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28 Oct 2013 10:31 |
My current research is for the friend of a friend via messages! I believe I have touched on this family before but I am now looking for the mother's family - Turner :-
Marriages Mar 1926 Rhodes John A Turner Grimsby 7a 1005
Turner Florence M Rhodes Grimsby 7a 1005
I have been told that Florence and her family came from Crowmarsh Gifford which is next to Wallingford, Oxfordshire and this is the Registration District. I have been given a list of sisters and a brother for Florence but they are all family diminutive names and possibly not as registered. As a bonus I cannot get the order of thir births but from FreeBMD I have this list :-
Births Sep 1893 Turner Maud Wallingford 2c 324
Births Jun 1896 Turner Alice Elizabeth Wallingford 2c 320
Births Jun 1899 Turner Alice Annie Wallingford 2c 325
Births Dec 1899 Turner Alice Wallingford 2c 317
Births Mar 1901 Turner Martha Florence Wallingford 2c 319
Births Mar 1903 Turner Frederick Ernest Wallingford 2c 314
I believe Florence, by the time of her marriage, had her christian names reversed (and the family had moved to Grimsby) because she is said to have been born the same year as the Queen Mother which I have as 1900. The diminutives are Bessie and Fred. Previously some kind people seem to be able to find a family using the combination of names as I am having difficulty finding them seperately at all in 1901 or 1911. Please is there anybody reading this to take up the challenge.
The names of the parents have been given as Fred and Kathleen but I don't regard Kathleen as necessarily correct and I have yet to find a suitable marriage in FreeBMD
Many thanks, Frances
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ErikaH
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28 Oct 2013 10:33 |
1901 census
Person: TURNER, Martha Address: Rokemarsh, Benson (Oxon), Bensington Or
TURNER, Arthur Head Married M 31 1870 Agricultural Labourer Long Crowmarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Catherine Wife Married F 30 1871 Cholsey, Berkshire VIEW TURNER, Gertrude Daughter Single F 10 1891 Cholsey, Berkshire VIEW TURNER, Ellen Daughter Single F 8 1893 Long Crowmarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, George A Son Single M 6 1895 Long Crowmarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Maud M Daughter Single F 3 1898 Long Crowmarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Alice Daughter Single F 2 1899 Long Crowmarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Martha Daughter F 0 (2 MOS) 1901 Benson, Oxfordshire
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ErikaH
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28 Oct 2013 10:35 |
The sensible course for your friend to pursue would be the purchase of the marriage cert
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Frances
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28 Oct 2013 10:49 |
Thank you Reggie, that looks most hopeful and I have just found another Maud :-
Births Jun 1897 Turner Maud Mary Wallingford 2c 311
based on her death after marriage
Deaths Mar 1955 Hooper Maud M 57 Wharfedale 2d 786
so perhaps you have at last managed to unlock it for me. I will pass this lot back and hope for a positive response - peoples memories are sometimes suspect when they get past 70!
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Catherine
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28 Oct 2013 12:01 |
Wonder if this is Florence and Alice in 1911:-
TURNER, Alice Inmate F 12 1899 School Roke Oxon VIEW RG number: RG14 Piece: 6515 Reference: RG14PN6515 RG78PN322 RD119 SD1 ED8 SN145 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Cholsey Enumeration District: 8 Parish: Brightwell Address: Wantage Road Brightwell Wallingford County: Berkshire .......................................
TURNER, Florence Inmate F 10 1901 School Roke Oxon VIEW
RG number: RG14 Piece: 6515 Reference: RG14PN6515 RG78PN322 RD119 SD1 ED8 SN145 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Cholsey Enumeration District: 8 Parish: Brightwell Address: Wantage Road Brightwell Wallingford County: Berkshire ..............................................
There's also a Bessie Turner with them, but she may not be same family?
TURNER, Bessie Inmate F 6 1905 School Roke Oxon VIEW
RG number: RG14 Piece: 6515 Reference: RG14PN6515 RG78PN322 RD119 SD1 ED8 SN145 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Cholsey Enumeration District: 8 Parish: Brightwell Address: Wantage Road Brightwell Wallingford County: Berkshire .........................................................
There's also a Frederick with correct date and place of birth in the same home:-
TURNER, Frederick Inmate M 9 1902 School Roke Oxon VIEW
RG number: RG14 Piece: 6515 Reference: RG14PN6515 RG78PN322 RD119 SD1 ED8 SN145 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Cholsey Enumeration District: 8 Parish: Brightwell Address: Wantage Road Brightwell Wallingford County: Berkshire
.............so if this is the correct family, then looks as though the parents may have died?
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Catherine
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28 Oct 2013 12:02 |
This looks as though it may be Alice Elizabeth in 1911?
ROBINSON, Henry Head Widower M 75 1836 Retired Canal Manager Oxford Oxford VIEW ROBINSON, Edith Helen Daughter Single F 41 1870 Oxford Oxford VIEW ROBINSON, Mabel Daughter Single F 39 1872 Oxford Oxford VIEW ROBINSON, Rose Amy Daughter Single F 38 1873 Oxford Oxford VIEW TURNER, Alice Elizabeth Servant Single F 15 1896 General Servant Domestic Oxford Dorchester VIEW
RG number: RG14 Piece: 6528 Reference: RG14PN6528 RG78PN323 RD119 SD2 ED12 SN108 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Wallingford Enumeration District: 12 Parish: Dorchester Address: Beech House Dorchester Wallinford County: Berkshire
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and Maud looks to be in hospital in 1911:-
TURNER, Maud Patient F 13 1898 Crowmarsh Oxon VIEW
RG number: RG14 Piece: 6519 Reference: RG14PN6519 RG78PN323 RD119 SD2 ED3 SN19 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Wallingford Enumeration District: 3 Parish: Clapcot Address: Clapcot Wallingford County: Berkshire .............................................
...........and Ellen in 1911?
1911 England Census about Ellen Mary Turner Name: Ellen Mary Turner Age in 1911: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893 Relation to Head: Servant Gender: Female Birth Place: Crowmarsh Gifford, Oxon, England Civil Parish: St Peter St Leonard County/Island: Berkshire Country: England Street Address: 65 High Street, Wallingford Marital Status: Single Occupation: General Servant Domestic Registration District: Wallingford Registration District Number: 119 Sub-registration District: Wallingford ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household Schedule Number: 27 Piece: 6517 Household Members: Name Age Edward Percy Carell 53 Ellen Kate Louise Hertman 43 Dorothy Kate Northam 23 Ellen Mary Turner 18
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Catherine
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28 Oct 2013 12:08 |
Mother's death:-
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Catherine Turner Name: Catherine Turner Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1905 Age at Death: 36 Registration District: Wallingford Inferred County: Berkshire Volume: 2c Page: 189
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The Bessie in 1911 census was born in 1905 so there may be a connection with the death of Catherine!
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Catherine
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28 Oct 2013 12:11 |
This marriage would go with the 1901 census:-
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Arthur Turner Name: Arthur Turner Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1892 Registration District: Wallingford Inferred County: Berkshire Volume Number: 2c Page Number: 467 Records on Page: Name Mary Ann Goodenough xxxx Catherine Lewington Francis Rumble xxxx Arthur Turner .....................................
You really need to take Reggie's advice and buy the marriage certificate to check father's name and occupation. Without that anything found will be just speculation.
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Catherine
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28 Oct 2013 12:15 |
Arthur in 1911?
SEYMOUR, David Head Married M 70 1841 Domestic Groom Bury Lane Abington VIEW SEYMOUR, Ann Wife Married46 years F 64 1847 Charwoman Burcott Oxfordshire VIEW SEYMOUR, Arthur Son Single M 23 1888 Labourer General Wallingford Berkshire VIEW TURNER, Arthur Boarder Single M 40 1871 Labourer On Farm Long Crowmarsh Oxfordshire VIEW TOWNSON, Henry Boarder Married M 28 1883 Baker Journeyman Lower Worton Oxon VIEW
RG number: RG14 Piece: 6517 Reference: RG14PN6517 RG78PN323 RD119 SD2 ED1 SN367 Registration District: Wallingford Sub District: Wallingford Enumeration District: 1 Parish: St Leonard Address: 20 St Leonard Lane Wallingford County: Berkshire
States he is single but, date and place of birth match, and he may have said that to be get a job and hide the fact his children were in a home?
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Frances
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30 Oct 2013 16:01 |
Thank you Catherine for all your info. Sorry I have only just come back but it seemed to go quiet after Reggie's input and I was lucky with the 1911 to find all the chidren from Maud onwards to be in a home. FreeBMD puts Bessie as born 1904 so I think Catherine dying in 1905 was not a childbirth incident. I intend to suggest to the descendant that she obtains the death certificate for clarification.
Arthur 40 in 1911 means he has lost a couple of years from his birth in 1869 but of course it may have been the Seymours that gave the enumerator the info...
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Frances
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31 Oct 2013 16:36 |
As I already have this thread going on Turners I will try an ask for my earliest ancestor Charles who in 1881 census says he is 35 from Witney but in 1871 he gives Standlake, which is a village just south of Witney. I cannot see an appropriate Birth entry in FreeBMD c.1846 but can anybody see him inthe 1851 census in this area. His later marriage is :-
Marriages Jun 1869 TURNER Charles Wallingford 2c 491
Nailer Maryanne Wallingford 2c 491
Many thanks, Frances
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2013 16:39 |
As there were no penalties until 1875 for not registering births, no surprise that you can't see a record on freebmd
Have you thought of looking for a baptism?
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2013 16:41 |
For INFO
1881 census
Person: TURNER, Charles Address: ?, Benson Aka Bensington (Oxon)
TURNER, Charles Head Married M 35 1846 Ag Lab Witney, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Mary A Wife Married F 30 1851 Crownarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Arthur Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar Crownarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Ada Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar Crownarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Annie Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar Crownarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Alice C Daughter Single F 6 1875 Scholar Crownarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, John Son Single M 4 1877 Crownarsh, Oxfordshire VIEW TURNER, Katey Daughter Single F 2 1879 Wallingford, Oxfordshire
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2013 16:46 |
If he knew his father, the name will be on the marriage cert
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Frances
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31 Oct 2013 16:50 |
Thanks Reggie. If this is my Charles why on earth does he have to invent Witney and Standlakes for his birth place. This family to give me much grief!
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