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Margaret Martin- Irish Birth?

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date
Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

cheekychops

cheekychops Report 11 Oct 2013 22:01

Any information how I could trace her birth, parents & siblings details would be welcomed.

Margaret Martin born 1859 Queens County now County Laois, Ireland

She married a John Sharples and had 3 children, last address 46 Swire Road, Birkdale Lancs.

patchem

patchem Report 11 Oct 2013 22:32

If this is her marriage her Father's name will be on the certificate:
Marriages Jun 1879
LENNON John Liverpool 8b 77
xxxxMARTIN MARGARET Liverpool 8b 77
xxxxxSharples John Liverpool 8b 77
Skalley Annie Liverpool 8b 77

Added:
Margaret Martin
Birth Year: abt 1859
Age: 20
Marriage Date: 25 May 1879
Parish: Liverpool, St John
Spouse's Name: John Sharples Baker
Father's Name: Thomas Martin labourer
Spouse Father's Name: James Sharples Ostler
Reference Number: 283 JOH/3/18

cheekychops

cheekychops Report 11 Oct 2013 22:34

Thanks I will get the cert

patchem

patchem Report 11 Oct 2013 22:38

Sorry, I updated as you replied, found the 'certificate' online from '
Liverpool, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921'

cheekychops

cheekychops Report 11 Oct 2013 22:47

Thank You so much <3 <3

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 08:07

You've used the dreaded tick button - marked as answered, which it clearly isn't!

Think this is John prior to marriage, father Jas (James), occupation matches that on the marriage.

John Sharples
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Jas Sharples
Mother's Name: Emma Sharples
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: Liverpool
Sub-registration District: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household Schedule Number: 163
Piece: 3789
Folio: 17
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Jas Sharples 40 (horse keeper)
Emma Sharples 30
John Sharples 10
James Sharples 8
Anne Sharples 4
Robert Sharples 2
Elizth Dyer 70

James born Preston, rest in Liverpool apart from Elizth Dyer who is a boarder, born London somewhere.

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 08:11

James Sharples
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Emma Sharples
Gender: Male
Where born: Preston, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 18 Constance St <<< same address as on John's marriage
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Groom

Registration District: Liverpool
Sub-registration District: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3629
Folio: 100
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
James Sharples 50
Emma Sharples 40
James Sharples 18
Robert Sharples 11
Henry Sharples 6
William Sharples 4
Joseph Sharples 2
Harriet Davies 35

According to the marriage Margaret was also living Constance street (no number given), I've had a quick look through the images but can't find a Martin family there in 1881.

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 08:36

This is the only church record I can see for Margaret Martin, using search terms dob 1859 +- 5 years, with father Thomas Martin, in co Laois. Queens county was renamed Laois in 1922 following independance.

This is from rootsireland.ie, but you need credits to view the record, I can only view the search results.

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 08:42

The same site is showing 2 church marriages for Thomas Martin 1858 +/- 5 years.

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 09:31

I think this is John/Margaret in 1911, although their ages are out and it states Margaret born Liverpool. However, it was the head's mother who filled in the census return so she may not have known their proper details:

John Sharples
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Southport
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 95 Shakespeare St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Bread Baker (Journeyman)
Registration District: Ormskirk
Registration District Number: 457
Sub-registration District: North Meols
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 22889
Household Members: Name Age
Harold Douglas Rigby 35
Winifred Rigby 12
Harold Douglas Rigby 7
Agnes Mary Rigby 6
Florence Lydia Rigby 5
Edwin Rigby 57
Mary Emma Rigby 63
John Sharples 47 <<<<
Margaret Sharples 56 <<<<
Lily Steeden 27

cheekychops

cheekychops Report 12 Oct 2013 16:48

Thanks for your added information. It does match some of the information I have about the Sharples line. Their daughter Annie was my GG Grandmother lol.

You have fared better than me as I couldn't find Margaret on the irish site as there were far far too many possibilities, left me scratching my head hahahaha. Now you have given me the added information to work from I shall have another look. Thanks again x

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 07:26

After PM from cheekychops, looking at this census - I'm posting it to try to make some sense of it - but I don't see how it's connected Margaret is not of the right age. This is the ancestry transcript:

Thomas Martin
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wm McWilliams
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household Schedule Number: 175
Piece: 3797
Folio: 21
Page Number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
Wm McWilliams 31 <<different household (20 Lamplugh? street)
Elizabeth McWilliams 32
Jannett McWilliams 7
Mary A McWilliams 4
Wm McWilliams 1
Wm Manville 23

John Caster 56 <<This household bulked together 21 Lamplugh street
Margt Caster 88 (age should be 58)
Thos Caster 34 (labourer)
Catherine Caster 32 (Cigar maker)
Margt Caster 40 (domestic)
Thomas Martin 50 (labourer)
Catherine Martin 32 (cigar maker)
Margaret Martin 29 (domestic)
Annie Martin 18

Ernest Williams 15 <<this is different household, seperated by line on image
James McWhinnie 32
Jane McWhinnie 34
Henrietta McWhinnie 5
Ellen McWhinnie 2
Henry McWhinnie 7 Months

The image is quite bad to read, and goes over 2 pages - but I think although the ages are all over the place the 3 Caster children are the same as the 3 Martin children. All are recorded born Ireland apart from Annie, born Liverpool.

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 07:35

The same family of Martins were in Toxteth Park on the 1861 census - John/Margaret, with Thomas, Catherine, Margaret, Betsy & Annie. Son Thomas is unmarried so I don't really think they can be connected.

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 07:47

I think this is the 1881 census you are considering:

Thomas Martin
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relationship to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 1 Court 1 Ho. Henry Street
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Dock Labourer

Registration District: Liverpool
Sub-registration District: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3616
Folio: 57
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
John Barrett 35
Catherine Barrett 31
John Barrett 3
Mary Ann Barrett 2
Bernard Carroll 40
Thomas Barrett 24
Thomas Martin 41 (married)
Margaret Martin 53 (married - born Ireland)
Ann Martin 22 (born Liverpool)

These could be connected, but Ann appears to be the same age as your Margaret, and she was born Liverpool?

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 08:10

Who did you ggmother marry, when & where - I'm not having much luck in finding them in 1901. Think Margaret Ellen (1885) is a boarder, but I can't find the rest of the family.

cheekychops

cheekychops Report 13 Oct 2013 12:11

Margaret Ellen (1885) was a domestic servant and moved down to Altrincham (Bucklow) her elder sister Annie (1881) was here and she married a Nash in Bucklow and had 10 children. In 1901 census she was with her first born Lucy Nash 1yr old in Southport. Their other sibling John G Sharples (1891) I cannot find.
Margaret E Sharples married a George Frederick Mcdonald in 1904, St Georges Church Altrincham (Bucklow) they had a son John Frederick Mcdonald in 1905, they lived on Police Street Altrincham. John G Sharples vanished lol. They were the children of John Sharples & Margaret Martin

cheekychops

cheekychops Report 13 Oct 2013 12:16

The Ann Martin did match with age, right father name. Both her parents were Thomas & Margaret, could only find one child for them both, so that's a match. BUT I cannot find 'my' Margaret with the name Ann, maybe as a middle name? A lot dropped first names in favour of middle, but this I cannot tie in.

Family has it 'they' came over from Ireland together, they were living here before Margaret's marriage to John Sharples....?? lol

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 12:23

I thought it was John Patrick Sharples, registered 1890 in Formby - lancashirebmd gave mmn as Martin, and he is recorded as John P in 1891

Margaret Sharples
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Sharples
Gender: Female
Where born: Queens, Ireland

Civil Parish: Birkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Birkdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration District: Ormskirk
Sub-registration District: Formby
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3032
Folio: 81
Page Number: 10
Household Members: Name Age
John Sharples 30
Margaret Sharples 31
Annie Sharples 10
Margaret E Sharples 6
John P Sharples 9/12

Not that I can find him later though. So both girls had left home by 1901, so it just leaves John/Margaret and poss John jnr to find in 1901, I've looked, but so far haven't had any luck.

Not had any luck with finding Margaret before her marriage either - just the possible parents with Ann in 1881, which you had already found.

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 12:30

Have you seen the 1911 census image for Annie and her 4 living children (3 more have died)? Interesting note on the image.

Flip

Flip Report 13 Oct 2013 12:44

Ann and Margaret can't be the same person, although I realise the father's name is correct. Margaret was already married and with John Sharples in 1881 - so couldn't be with her parents.

They may have come from Ireland together, but after the 1871 census - so we wouldn't find her with her parents.