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SylviaInCanada
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25 Sep 2013 04:55 |
I would suspect that Alice Jane took responsibility for Josephine, possibly because she was better off than other relatives.
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SylviaInCanada
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25 Sep 2013 04:51 |
Have you bought the birth certificate for Josephine L Tunstall to get the names of her parents??
Births Sep 1896 (>99%)
Tunstall Josephine Laura Highworth 5a 11
That should have been your first step.
According to 2 Public Family trees on ancestry, Jospehine Laura was the daughter of Joseph Thomas Roger Tunstall and Laura Agnes Cray
These trees also show that Laura Agnes Cray died in 1896 ................
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Laura Agnes Tunstall
Name: Laura Agnes Tunstall Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1896 Age at Death: 22 Registration District: Highwood Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume: 5a Page: 5
Marriage of Laura Agnes and Joseph Tunstall
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Laura Agnes Cray
Name: Laura Agnes Cray Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1894 Registration District: Barton Regis Inferred County: Gloucestershire Volume Number: 6a Page Number: 173 Records on Page:
Spouse Name: Joseph Thomas R Tunstall
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SylviaInCanada
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25 Sep 2013 04:43 |
Official legal adoption did not begin until 1927 ......... so you will not find any papers.
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mgnv
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24 Sep 2013 19:08 |
"Did you know? UK passenger lists do not record travel within Europe unless a ship called at more than one European port before travelling further afield." http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/passengers.htm
An example of these exceptions would be Cunard's habit post-WW1 of travelling between Southampton and New York with an interim stop at Le Havre. Occassionally, one finds passengers travelling between Southanpton and Le Havre mixed in with the trans-atlantic voyagers.
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MarieCeleste
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24 Sep 2013 18:44 |
I'm now coming round to the idea that it could be the same woman ......
I'd guess she may have termed herself a widow as it may have been considered unseemly for a single woman to "adopt" a daughter.
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rootgatherer
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24 Sep 2013 16:13 |
1891
Name: Sidney A Cray Age: 39 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Agnes M Cray Gender: Male Where born: Westbury, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Swindon Ecclesiastical parish: Old Swindon Town: Old Swindon County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration District: Highworth Sub-registration District: Swindon ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1582 Folio: 99 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age Sidney A Cray 39 Agnes M Cray 38 Laura A Cray 16
Marriages Sep 1894 Cray Laura Agnes Barton R. 6a 173 Tunstall Joseph Thomas R Barton R. 6a 173
Deaths Sep 1896 Tunstall Laura Agnes 22 Highworth 5a 5
Marriages Jun 1904
Kite Florence Victoria Bristol 6a 27 Tunstall Joseph Thomas R Bristol 6a 27
1911
Name: Joseph Thomas Roger Tunstall Age in 1911: 41 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Female Birth Place: Edgeware, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: Swindon County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street Address: 46 Goddard Avenue, Swindon, Wilts Marital Status: Married Occupation: Railway Clerk Registration District: Swindon Registration District Number: 240 Sub-registration District: Swindon ED, institution, or vessel: 38 Household Schedule Number: 160 Piece: 11804 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Thomas Roger Tunstall 41 Florence Victoria Tunstall 28 Thomas Tunstall 6 Richard Tunstall 5 John Tunstall 3 Charles Tunstall 1
Name: Sydney A Cray Birth Date: abt 1850 Date of Registration: Dec 1929 Age at Death: 79 Registration District: Bristol Inferred County: Gloucestershire Volume: 6a Page: 161
Name: Agnes M Cray Birth Date: abt 1852 Date of Registration: Jun 1920 Age at Death: 68 Registration District: Bristol Inferred County: Gloucestershire Volume: 6a Page: 232
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rootgatherer
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24 Sep 2013 15:53 |
Births Sep 1896 Tunstall Josephine Laura Highworth 5a 11
1911
Name: Josephine Laura Tunstall Age in 1911: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897 Relation to Head: Grandchild Gender: Female Birth Place: Swindon, Wiltshire Civil Parish: Bristol County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address: 372 Gloucester Road, Horfield, Bristol Registration District: Bristol Registration District Number: 319 Sub-registration District: Ashley ED, institution, or vessel: 29 Household Schedule Number: 99 Piece: 15088 Household Members: Name Age Sidney Alban Cray 60 Agnes Mary Cray 59 Josephine Laura Tunstall 14
1901
Name: Josephine L Tunstall Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897 Relation: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: Swindon, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Bristol Ecclesiastical parish: Bishopston St Michael and All Angels Town: Bristol County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration District: Bristol Sub-registration District: Ashley ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 310 Piece: 2398 Folio: 127 Page Number: 48 Household Members: Name Age Sidney A Cray 50 Agnes M Cray 49 Josephine L Tunstall 4 Joseph Gough 70 Father-in-law
Unlikely that there would be any paperwork for adoption at that time. looks like Josephine the "adopted" daughter was actually her Grand Neice, if the census relationship of Grand daughter to alice's sister Agnes is the correct relationship on the 1901 and 1911 census.
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Maria
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24 Sep 2013 15:39 |
I have the will of Alice Jane Gough who left her estate to her 'Adopted' (although no official papers have been found) daughter - Josephine Laura Tunstall (my grandmother). As you suggest she may have adopted the title of "Mrs" for appearances.
Alice apparently bought the estate with money that she had as a result of being in Paris and buying and selling shares.
I am trying to find out more about her life whilst she was in Paris to try and piece things together. I do have an old address book of hers with french addresses but none relating to her.
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Ozibird
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24 Sep 2013 00:17 |
And/or her death cert.
Deaths Sep 1920 GOUGH Alice J 60 Hendon 3a 249
Harrow is in Hendon registration district at this time.
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rootgatherer
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23 Sep 2013 23:44 |
I would have doubts as to credibility of the status "widow" on the 1911 census. Year of birth and birthplace match the Alice Jane Gough that you are looking for. Perhaps she adopted the title of "Mrs" for appearances. Personally, I would buy a copy of that will to checkout the beneficiaries of such a fairly large estate.
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Ozibird
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23 Sep 2013 22:05 |
Although after saying that maybe she did marry a Gough after all.
1911 England Census Name: Alice Jane Gough Age in 1911: 51 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Female Birth Place: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Harrow on the Hill County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address: Hollywood House, Roxborough Avenue, Harrow On The Hill Marital Status: Widowed <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Occupation: Private Means Registration District: Hendon Registration District Number: 130 Sub-registration District: Harrow ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household Schedule Number: 369 Piece: 7075 Household Members: Name Age Alice Jane Gough 51 Emilie Weekes 47 - Cook Dorothy Wall 17 - Parlour Maid
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Ozibird
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23 Sep 2013 22:01 |
I'm not sure which thread to post on now, but most answers are on this one.
I have my doubts about that Alice J Gough death myself. She was supposed to have married. So unless she married a Gough that's not her.
1861, just to show Agnes with the family.
1861 England Census Name: Alice Gough Age: 1 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Joseph Gough Mother's Name: Ann Gough Gender: Female Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Trowbridge Town: Trowbridge County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street Address: Registration District: Melksham Sub-registration District: Trowbridge Piece: 1295 Folio: 110 Page Number: 37 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Gough 33 Ann Gough 33 Agnes Gough 9 John H Gough 7 Dorcas A Gough 5 Alice Gough 1
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ErikaH
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23 Sep 2013 21:19 |
Travel between the UK and mainland Europe is not documented
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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23 Sep 2013 18:35 |
this is that marriage Marriages Dec 1879 Barnes Alice Jane Westbury W 5a 291 LANFEAR Frederick Westbury, W. 5a 291
so not Alice Gough
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MarieCeleste
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23 Sep 2013 18:27 |
I may be wrong, but I have doubts that the widow and the girl from the 1871 are the same person.
Glitterbaby had posted this on the original thread:
13 Mar 2010 23:14 1891 but need to check around for a marriage ??
Name: Alice J Lanfear Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Frederick Gender: Female Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Westbury Ecclesiastical parish: Dilton Marsh Town: Dilton Marsh County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England
Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status:
Registration district: Westbury Sub-registration district: Westbury ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household Members: Name Age Frederick Lanfear 37 Alice J Lanfear 34 Bessie Lanfear 9 Ernest Lanfear 5 .......................................................................................................................
This is the FindMyPast version to show occupations, it would fit with being a needlewoman on previous census
LANFEAR, Frederick Head Married M 37 1854 Pattern Weaver Westbury, Wiltshire LANFEAR, Alice J Wife Married F 34 1857 Dress Maker Trowbridge, Wiltshire LANFEAR, Bessie Daughter Single F 9 1882 Scholar Westbury, Wiltshire LANFEAR, Ernest Son Single M 5 1886 Scholar Westbury, Wiltshire
Piece: 1608 Folio: 32 Page: 13 Registration District: Westbury Civil Parish: Westbury
Address: Dilton Marsh, Westbury, Dilton Marsh County: Wiltshire ...................................................................................................
EDIT: Oh well, we can rule that one out!
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name: Frederick Lanfear Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1879 Registration District: Westbury Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume Number: 5a Page Number: 291
Records on Page: Name Alice Jane Barnes Frederick Lanfear
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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23 Sep 2013 18:24 |
1891 England Census about Minnie A Gough Name: Minnie A Gough Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Filton Ecclesiastical parish: Filton Town: Filton County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View Image Registration District: Barton Regis Sub-registration District: Ashley ED, institution, or vessel: 33 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1974 Folio: 78 Page Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age Edwin Shellard 47 Ellen Shellard 39 Edwin Shellard 17 Mary J Butler 20 John H Iles 19 Ellen P Boam 18 Minnie A Gough 21>>>>>>> Elizabeth Selman 19
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1974; Folio: 78; Page: 10; GSU Roll: 6097084.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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23 Sep 2013 18:21 |
theres no sister Agnes with them on the 1871 census
1871 England Census about Joseph Gough Name: Joseph Gough Age: 43 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Gough Gender: Male Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Trowbridge Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Town: Trowbridge County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Registration District: Melksham Sub-registration District: Trowbridge ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Household Schedule Number: 209 Piece: 1920 Folio: 21 Page Number: 34 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Gough 43 Ann Gough 43 John Hy Gough 17 Dorcas Ann Gough 15 Alice Jane Gough 11 Joseph E Gough 4 Minnie E Gough 1
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1920; Folio: 21; Page: 34; GSU roll: 830871.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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23 Sep 2013 18:16 |
well her sister married Barton Regis so wonder about this one
Marriages Jun 1881 BADOCK Miriam Gertrude Barton R. 6a 297 Gough Alice Barton R 6a 297 Meissner Albert Ludwig Barton R. 6a 297 ROBINSON John Henry Barton R. 6a 297
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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23 Sep 2013 18:02 |
her sister married 1881 England Census about Dorcas A. Toogood Name: Dorcas A. Toogood Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 Relationship to Head: Wife Spouse: Alfred J. Toogood Gender: Female Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Horfield County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address: 53 Gloster Road Marital Status: Married Education:
Employment status:
View Image Registration District: Barton Regis Sub-registration District: Ashley ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2487 Folio: 92 Page Number: 7 Household Members: Name Age Alfred J. Toogood 27 Dorcas A. Toogood 25
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2487; Folio: 92; Page: 7; GSU
Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%) Gough Dorcas Ann Barton R. 6a 278 spouse TOOGOOD Alfred Josiah
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MarieCeleste
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23 Sep 2013 18:01 |
You may already have this: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32074/pages/9765/page.pdf
ADDED:
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 Name: Alice Jane Gough Probate Date: 7 Sep 1920 Death Date: 11 Jul 1920 Death Place: Middlesex, England Registry: London, England
Widow of Hollywood House, Roxborough Avenue, Harrow on the Hill. Probate to the Public Trustee. Effects £4618 17s 10d
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