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10 Oct 2013 23:07 |
How would I find out if Emily, Edward, John and James went to the Workhouse between 1851 when their father died and 1855 when their mother emigrated? It could have been Holborn where their grandmother Susanna Hawley was. Just a thought.
Thanks,
Jill
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9 Oct 2013 20:05 |
Thanks rootgatherer. It seems younger women were the way to go. Interesting that David should die from 'gout - years and gastric irritation - 2 days'. Maybe from self medication. Lots to chew over with my sisters.
Jill
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rootgatherer
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9 Oct 2013 15:50 |
1841
Name: David Borthwick Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791 Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: St Andrew Holborn (Above The Bars) Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division) County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View Image Registration District: Holborn Sub-registration District: Saffron Hill Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 671 Book: 7 Folio: 24 Page Number: 41 Household Members: Name Age David Borthwick 50 Eliza Borthwick 25 Emily Borthwick 5 Edw Borthwick 4 John Borthwick 2 Susan Hawley 55
The above gives David's occupation as Proprietor of (can make out the next word) for the cure of gout.
There is also this one in Edinburgh in 1841 and he's a Chemist of some sort.
Name: Emer Borack [David Borthwick] Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791 Gender: Male Where born: Midlothian, Scotland Civil Parish: Edinburgh Greenside County: Midlothian Address: Greenside Place Down Stavis No 2 Occupation: Chemistgiwaper Parish Number: 685/1 Household Members: Name Age Emer Borack 50 Jane Borack 35 David Borack 12 Jane Borack 9 Robert Millegan 20 Alexander Mc Marando 15
(The correction to the name on Ancestry was added in 2010, presumably by someone who had viewed the original image)
This is the Greenside Place one earlier. He obviously had a career change too.
Name: David Borthwick Dates: 1801-1825 Location: Town: Edinburgh edinburgh Occupation(s): spirit dealer Gender: Male Address(es): Greenside place, no. 3; Town: Edinburgh Source Date: 1824 Source Info: Listed in, [Edinburgh, 1824] The new and improved Directory for Edinburgh, Leith, and Suburbs, from Whitsunday 1824 to Whitsunday 1825; (to be continued annually); containing an alphabetical list of the Nobility, Gentry, Merchants, Traders, and principal Inhabitants. With An Appendix, containing Lists of the Magistrates and Council - Post Towns in Scotland, England and Ireland - arival and dispatch of Mails, Stage-Coaches, and Carriers - Shipping and Insurance Companies - Hackney Coach and Chair fares - Porters’ and Carters’ Rates, &c. &c. With a Street Directory, and a Plan of the City., [1824], ANON., Edinburgh. John Anderson, Jun. 55, North Bridge Street, and William Hunter, 23, Hanover Street
There is also this one
Name: David Borthwick Dates: 1801-1825 Location: Town: Edinburgh edinburgh Occupation(s): teacher Gender: Male Address(es): Elder street, no. 21; Town: Edinburgh Source Date: 1815 Source Info: Listed in, [Edinburgh, 1815] The Post-Office Annual Directory, from Whitsunday 1815, to Whitsunday 1816, containing an Alphabetical arrangement of the Noblemen, Private Gentlemen, Merchants, Traders and Others, in the City and Suburbs of Edinburgh and Leith, with their Residence., 1815, ANON., Edinburgh. Printed by Abernethy & Walker, Old Bank Close, Lawnmarket
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9 Oct 2013 11:03 |
I have just received the death certificate for David Borthwick and after being a medicine dispenser in 1841, a medical man at James and Clarence's christenings, a surgeon - non practisng on the 1851 cenus and at his death in August 1851he was a 'Law Writer'! Chequered career. I still have had no progress in finding his and Eliza's marriage or the births of the 3 older children -Emily 1837, Edward 1838 and John 1839. According to the census all born in Middlesex. I realise it wasn't required to register births that early so perhaps they weren't. It's possible that their marriage records have been lost or or the ceremony didn't happen at all. Maybe this is as far as I can go with this branch. If so thanks to everyone for all the help you have given me.
Jill
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10 Sep 2013 12:32 |
Thanks Kucinta,
Glad I wasn't just being blind.
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Kucinta
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10 Sep 2013 10:49 |
From the Lyttelton Times Saturday January 5, 1856.
The 'Isabella Hercus', Captain Sewell, arrived in port early yesterday morning with 116 passengers for the province. Seven cabin passengers, and twenty one assisted emigrants for Otago. This vessel left London on September 18 1855. There were two births, and eight deaths during the voyage, four adults and four infants. Fever of a low character appears to have prevailed on board during considerate portion of the passage. Ten convalescents were admitted into hospital immediately on the ships arrival. Port of Registry: Workington. She sailed for Port Chalmers Feb. 1 and on March 5 she departed from Port Chalmers for Shanghai in ballast.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/isabella_hercus.htm
Sadly no crew list.
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10 Sep 2013 10:24 |
I have just received the marriage printout of Eliza Borthwick and Thomas Evins. It has her age as 35 when she would really have been 40, he was 39 and a mariner. Maybe he was part of the crew on the Isabella Hercus on the voyage out. I can't find any crew list for that trip in 1855/56 so will just assume.
Jill
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6 Sep 2013 21:23 |
Thanks Kucinta.
There is a family story that David Borthwick was married five times! This was from the same source as his incorrect death date so who knows? 5 seems an awful lot even for him unless they all died in childbirth or something. I have ordered his death cert but it won't be sent til 27th of this month so won't be til next month I get it.
Davids daughter Emily (14 in the 1851 census) has a story in the family that she was in Africa at a time when the Zulus were being rather unfriendly but that may have been a porky too. I expect she was married by then and not under Borthwick.
Ho hum
Jill
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Kucinta
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6 Sep 2013 14:39 |
Sorry..... :-(
The baptism might well still be your chap, it's not a bad fit - but the various marriages do muddy the waters a bit.
Given David's age compared to Eliza's, it wouldn't be surprising if he had been married a time or two before her.
I did find the marriage of a Drusilla Borthwick to Samuel Arthur Begland in 1838, St Bartholomew the Great, City of London, and the 1841 census gave her birthplace as Scotland c1821, (presumably rounded down to the nearest 5 yrs, as per the instructions for over 15s in the 1841 census).
Needless to say I can't find her birth in Scotland on familysearch.
Her father's name was given as David Borthwick, and I did wonder if she was 'your' David's child by a previous marriage.
However the occupation of the David Borthwick on the marriage register was giving as 'dancing master', which doesn't seem to tally with your chap's medical background, so that probably rules her out.
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6 Sep 2013 03:20 |
mmm eeny meeny miney mo
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Kucinta
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5 Sep 2013 00:03 |
There's always the chance the baptism I found might not be your David though...
There are three marriages for a David Borthwick at St Cuthberts around the same time, and at least two of the couples go on to breed in Edinburgh, according to the records at family search. Any one, or none, of the three might be your chap marrying for the first time.
Name: David Borthwick Birth Date: Birthplace: Age: Spouse's Name: Alexander Purdie Spouse's Birth Date: Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: Event Date: 05 Jun 1813 Event Place: Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland Father's Name: Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: Alexander Purdie Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11988-3 System Origin: Scotland-ODM GS Film number: 1066757 Reference ID:
Name: David Borthwick Birth Date: Birthplace: Age: Spouse's Name: Helen Clark Spouse's Birth Date: Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: Event Date: 15 Jun 1814 Event Place: Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland Father's Name: Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: Andrew Clark Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11988-3 System Origin: Scotland-ODM GS Film number: 1066757
Name: David Borthwick Birth Date: Birthplace: Age: Spouse's Name: Janet Dickson Spouse's Birth Date: Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: Event Date: 17 Feb 1814 Event Place: Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland Father's Name: Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: Dickson Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11988-3 System Origin: Scotland-ODM GS Film number: 1066757
https://familysearch.org/search/
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MarieCeleste
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4 Sep 2013 23:25 |
This clipping seems to confirm the passenger list that Choccy posted:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=LT18560105.2.7.1&srpos=2&e=-------10--1----2eliza+borthwick--
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MarieCeleste
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4 Sep 2013 23:23 |
Details of Eliza's remarriage:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=DSC18570317.2.7&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2eliza+borthwick--
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4 Sep 2013 22:51 |
What a great way to start my Thursday!!
Dea - yes that sounds correct. Diana got married in the house of Mrs Evins. I will need to get Eliza's marriage certificate to Thomas. Thanks.
Thanks for the christening record Reggie.
Kucinta you're a star. That birth of David Borthwick makes him the same age as his mother in law! I think he has some secrets. I have been wondering about the 6 year gap in the children's ages. (Between John and James) I wonder if they had different mothers? Maybe I'm getting carried away with the intrigue.
Thanks again everyone.
Jill
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Kucinta
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4 Sep 2013 12:31 |
Marriage for James Borthwick and Helen Howden:
Name: James Borthwick Birth Date: Birthplace: Age: Spouse's Name: Helen Howden Spouse's Birth Date: Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: Event Date: 19 Nov 1781 Event Place: Edinburgh Parish,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland Father's Name: Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: James Howden Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11985-6 System Origin: Scotland-ODM GS Film number: 993527
From the free site:
https://familysearch.org/search
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Kucinta
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4 Sep 2013 12:27 |
??
Possibly a bit early. On the other hand, with a much younger wife, he might have been a bit flexible with his age:
Name: David Borthwick Gender: Male Christening Date: 25 May 1787 Christening Place: SAINT CUTHBERTS, EDINBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND Birth Date: 22 May 1787 Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: James Borthwick Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Helen Howden Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11987-3 System Origin: Scotland-VR GS Film number: 1066754 Reference ID: 2:17RJ7HD
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ErikaH
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4 Sep 2013 12:06 |
Name: Eliza Hawley Gender: Female Christening Date: 10 May 1816 Christening Place: SAINT MARY-ST MARYLEBONE ROAD,ST MARYLEBONE,LONDON,ENGLAND Birth Date: 06 Apr 1816
Father's Name: Edward Hawley
Mother's Name: Susanna
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03524-6
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Dea
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4 Sep 2013 12:05 |
I wonder if Eliza remarried?
There is this marriage of an Eliza Borthwick in NZ in 1856 ?
1856/1673 Eliza Borthwick Thomas Orland Evins
Dea x
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4 Sep 2013 11:46 |
Thanks Maureen
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MaureeninNY
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4 Sep 2013 11:41 |
The death for David Borthwick as found by Reggie is also listed on Ancestry with an address of Denton's Bldgs. which is where the family were in 1851,
Maureen
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