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Don't forget that age at death would have been to the best of knowledge of the person registering it! And a December 15th death 1915 for example aged 78 could have been born 16th Dec 1836-15th December 1837.

Also census enumerators took the year of the census and took away the age given ie 1851 -12 == 1839.
However the census was taken 30th March so the person could have been born
1st April 1838-30th March 1839

If you look at it bearing this in mind it can make quite a difference age/birth year wise

The tree Thelma posted is probably on the Mundia site - maybe you could contact the owner.

Many thanks again.
I wish Martha could have made her mind up where she was born!!
I'm sure she was born in 1837 as her death in Dec 1915 stated she was 78.
Martha Holder-according to the 1851 census-was aged 12- born in 1839-I can understand if she was uncertain where she was born-her father was a boatman & the children seem to have been born wherever the barge was!
Ah well, It seems a birth cert is my only option
Thank you all for your efforts

Charles Edward Howes

Birth
1857 3 Mar (May have cert.)
Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England


6 source citations

Residence
1871 Age: 14
Lenton, Nottinghamshire, England
Age: 14; Relation: Son


1 source citation

Marriage to Rebecca Clayton
1875 28 Mar Age: 18
General Baptist Chapel, Lenton, Nottingham



Residence
1881 Age: 24
Lenton, Nottinghamshire, England
Age: 24; Relation: Head; Condition as to marriage: Married


1 source citation

Residence
1901 Age: 44
Crayford, Kent, England
Age: 63; Relation: Head


1 source citation

Residence
1911 2 Apr Age: 54
Crayford, Kent, England
Age in 1911: 55; Marital Status: Widowed; Relation to Head: Head


1 source citation

Death
1920 Jul Age: 63
Nottingham
Burial St Paulinus Church Crayford Kent

There are 8 trees on Mundia.com
Some state Martha Holder.

In 1891, the woman says she was born in St Thomas.........as was the Holder girl, who married in 1856

But........you are very wise to get the birth cert.

Hello all

I guess it wasn't Martha Watts or Martha Holder-I think the best bet is for me to send for a birth certificate for one of the children Many thanks to you all for trying,

Maureen

Hannah's birth reg but before the 1860 Howes/Watts marriage:

Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
HOWES Hannah Woodstock 3a 608

1851 census


Person: HOLDER, Martha Address: Hythe Bridge Wharf, St Thomas, Oxford

HOLDER, Margerett Head Widow F 50 1801 Charwoman (British Subject)
Not Known, Ireland VIEW
HOLDER, James Son Unmarried M 27 1824 Boatman
Oxford, Oxfordshire VIEW
HOLDER, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 19 1832 Genl Serv
Birming'm, Warwickshire VIEW
HOLDER, Emma Daughter F 10 1841 Scholar
Taddington VIEW
HOLDER, Martha Daughter F 12 1839 Scholar
Drayton, Oxfordshire VIEW
HOLDER, Charles Son M 5 1846 Scholar
Oxford, Oxfordshire VIEW
HOLDER, Robert Son M 7 1844 Scholar
Oxford, Oxfordshire VIEW
HOLDER, Edward Son M 14 1837 College Servant
Oxford, Oxfordshire VIEW
WORTH, Joseph Unmarried M 32 1819 Coal Lab
Oxford, Oxfordshire VIEW Piece: 1728 Folio: 407 Page: 20 Registration District: Oxford Civil Parish: St Thomas Municipal Borough: Oxford

??????????

Marriages Mar 1856 (>99%)
Brooks Mary Ann Oxford 3a 621
Hern Mark Oxford 3a 621
Holder Martha Oxford 3a 621
HOWSE John Oxford 3a 621

How have you arrived at a marriage in March 1857 at Woodstock please? Was that the Martha Watts marriage you refer to?

1881 census, Martha says she was born in Oxford and 1891, St Thomas, Oxfordshire
in 1881 most of them are supposedly born in Woodstock, not Wootton - only the opposite side of Oxford by about 12 miles!
EDIT - apologies - 2 Woottons in Oxon, the other one is next door to Woodstock!

Did you say WATTS?

Marriages Dec 1860 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Charlott George Headington 3a 955 Scan available - click to viewAdditional information available - click on Info button
Howes John Headington 3a 955 Scan available - click to view
Newell Elizabeth Headington 3a 955 Scan available - click to viewAdditional information available - click on Info button
Watts Martha Headington 3a 955

Thanks for that Reggie I'll have to send for my gt grandmother's birth certificate

The mother's maiden name has been on birth certs since the GRO came into being in July 1837

Hi PricklyHolly,

I didn't think that the mother's surname would be on the birth certs at that time

Hi Stuart
I had found John Howes marriage on the IGI-being about the time their eldest son was born I thought it might be the right person but, without finding a Martha Ann married to a John Howes I can't be absolutely certain.

There is this entry......

Marriages Dec 1852 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ayres Maria Potter Lewisham 1d 897
Ayres Martha Potter Lewisham 1d 897
HOWES John Lewisham 1d 897
ROBERTS Laura Lewisham 1d 897
Scratchley Henry Edward Lewisham 1d 897


But i can't spot a Martha Potter born Oxfordshire in the 1851 census.

I think you will have to purchase a copy of one of the childrens birth certs to find out her maiden name.

It might be that they didn't marry.........or she just preferred the name Martha.

Yes, this is the family. I can't track down Marth'a surname. I did find (many years ago on the IGI) a John Howes marrying a Martha Watts. It seems to have disappeared from that site & because another Howes descendant had researched the family & had added a Martha Holding, I thought I was wrong! But, Martha Holding was born in Drayton Oxfordshire-hence my search for the correct surname.

How have you arrived at a marriage in March 1857 at Woodstock please?

1871 census transcription details for: Yard In Abbey Street, Lenton

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 3499
Folio: 19
Page: 32
Reg. District: Radford
Sub District: Lenton
Parish: Lenton
Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Yard In Abbey Street, Lenton
County: Nottinghamshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
HOWES, John Head M 35 1836 Oxfordshire Wootton
HOWES, Martha Wife F 34 1837 Oxfordshire Wootton
HOWES, Charles Son M 14 1857 Oxfordshire Woodstock
HOWES, Hannah Daughter F 12 1859 Oxfordshire Wootton
HOWES, Emily Daughter F 10 1861 Oxfordshire Wootton
HOWES, John Son M 7 1864 Essex Chelmsford
HOWES, George Son M 3 1868 Oxfordshire Wooton


John's occupation is I think Leather ------?Dresser