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Samuel Minshull
Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
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Ann | Report | 2 Aug 2013 12:30 |
I would like to find information about Samuel Minshull's death/disappearance. He was born around 1813 and married Ellen Grundy in 1833 in Manchester. They had a son called James William, born 1838 in Stretford Manchester. Ellen remarried, to Thomas Worthington in 1844 and James is listed in the later census as James William Minshull Worthington and as Thomas's stepson. My late husband was descended from James William. It seems that my husband biological ancestor, therefore, was a Minshull, not a Worthington!. I can find no record of Samuel Minshull (not on 1841 census) so he must have died between 1837 and 1844 when Ellen remarried. Does anyone know anything about Samuel? |
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Eringobragh1916 | Report | 2 Aug 2013 13:28 |
Ann There is this one but ? too old too late. |
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Mike * | Report | 2 Aug 2013 13:40 |
This one fits age wise |
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Mike * | Report | 2 Aug 2013 13:43 |
This looks like the one who died in 1878 |
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Mike * | Report | 2 Aug 2013 13:50 |
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MarieCeleste | Report | 2 Aug 2013 21:50 |
Just in case it help, Samuel was a painter when he married: |
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ErikaH | Report | 2 Aug 2013 21:55 |
It is unwise to assume ( until a record of death is found) that because his wife re-married he was deceased. |
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MarieCeleste | Report | 2 Aug 2013 22:00 |
Not sure if this is about the same chap. This one is a commission agent, dealer and chapman whereas on the marriage above he was a painter. |
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alviegal | Report | 2 Aug 2013 22:03 |
?? For larceny. |
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alviegal | Report | 2 Aug 2013 22:20 |
The birth of the son for ref. |
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alviegal | Report | 2 Aug 2013 22:25 |
Ellen and James in 1841? |
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alviegal | Report | 2 Aug 2013 22:41 |
Just showing this because Samuel is a painter and I can't find them on later census records for definite. |
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Dea | Report | 3 Aug 2013 09:24 |
Re your comment above aviegal : |
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Flip | Report | 3 Aug 2013 11:25 |
There are 5 christenings on the same day, all with abode "Stretford" abb by the same vicar. All the others have father's named apart from James William - it only names a mother and I would agree with Aviegal that it states spinster. |
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Researching: |
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Flip | Report | 3 Aug 2013 11:46 |
The 1851 census is so badly damaged, the christian names for James W have been torn off, but he is on the census as Minshull and not Worthington and stepson as you have said. There is another child - this is his christening, father a bookkeeper (as he was on the 1844 marriage) abode Salford. |
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Researching: |
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Ann | Report | 3 Aug 2013 17:22 |
Thanks to all those who have replied to my post about Samuel Minshull, all very interesting. To answer the various questions-I found a reference to a birth on 18th July 1813 in Manchester, parents John Minshull and Ellen. Ellen's maiden name (a guess) was Walmsley. I have the marriage certificate for Thomas Worthington and Ellen Minshull on Dec 11th 1844. Ellen is listed as a widow. Her father Peter Grundy is listed as a painter, as was Samuel M. On James William's's birth certificate the father is given as Samuel Minshull, mother Ellen Minshull formerly Grundy.. As a matter of interest Ellen went on to marry a third time, to the Thomas Smith listed in the 1861 census as her lodger!. Possibly the death of Samuel Minshull in 1847 is him but this would imply that she was not a widow at her second marriage but either divorced from Samuel- or even a bigamist!. It is interesting that she is listed as a spinster on James's baptism record and the father's name was not given as it was on the birth certificate in August. William's baptism took place nearly 3 months after his birth, in October. Very strange! |
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Flip | Report | 3 Aug 2013 23:07 |
It is also strange, though not unknown, but she married Samuel in 1833 but didn't have a child until 1838 - or had earlier children who died? |
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Researching: |
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Flip | Report | 3 Aug 2013 23:20 |
Divorce is probably a non-starter, women couldn't divorce their husbands back then, and it cost a lot of money so highly unlikely they divorced. Samuel may have died pre-registration, or like you say she may have been a bigamist. |
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Researching: |
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Ann | Report | 4 Aug 2013 12:05 |
Thank you Flip. I thought divorce would be unlikely and I too have wondered why there was a five year gap between her marriage and James's birth and why she didn't have children before then. Frustratingly I just can't make out the Christian name of the Minshull witness on the marriage cert. It wouldn't be of any importance if Thomas Worthington was a distant relative but it is relevant if my husband was genetically descended from a Minshull and not a Worthington. He was my husband's great grandfather. My husband died in 2008 so I cannot tell him about this. I know he would have been very interested. My son Richard is intrigued about his possibly different biological ancestor..James William carried on the Minshull name by giving it to at least two of his children as a middle name-Amy and Elizabeth so it must have meant something to him.Thanks again! |
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Flip | Report | 4 Aug 2013 13:12 |
I've had another look at the 1833 marriage, and I'm not able to make out the witness name either - other than I think it starts with M so not much help sorry. |
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Researching: |