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Tichey
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6 May 2013 04:33 |
Anyone on the Genes reunited Tasmania site??? Please can you find details of Charles Ingram. Born 1866 In Tasmania Hobart..He is a British subject by parentage. Married 1888 in Bradford Yorkshire to Florence Fawcett . He is a Mechanics Labourer in the 1901 Australian census with a wife and three children. I am able to follow him forwards but not backwards. I can only assume that Charles's Father went to Tasmania and either took his wife with him or found himself a wife in Tasmania. As I am not able to access Charles's birth certificate. I have no lead to find HIM prior to getting married in 1888,or his parent who were born in England. Was Charles's dad a convict.? Skeletons in the cupboard. ???? . Please can anyone help. I look forward to a reply. Have a great week Patricia White nee Ingram. :-( :-(
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Gee
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6 May 2013 06:27 |
I'm a little confused with your post. Do you mean he was on the English 1901 census
1901 England Census Name: Charles Ingram Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Florence Ingram Gender: Male Where born: Tasmmia, Australia Civil parish: Hunslet Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Hunslet Sub-registration district: Hunslet ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 144 Piece: 4189 Folio: 43 Page Number: 23 Household Members: Name Age Charles Ingram 34 <<Mechanics labourer Florence Ingram 31 Anne Ingram 10 Fawcett Alexander Ingram 8 Oliver Ingram 1
West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935 Name: Charles Ingram Birth Year: abt 1867 Age: 21 Marriage or Bann Date: 3 Nov 1888 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<<??Time keeper 10 Radnor Street Spouse's Name: Florence Fawcett Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Fawcett Are you looking for Charles the 'son', as on the above census or his father?
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Gee
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6 May 2013 06:50 |
This appears to be his parents and siblings
1881 England Census Name: Charles Ingham Age: 39 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Ingham Gender: Male Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland Civil parish: Bradford County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: 1 Coach Row Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Stuff Warehouseman Pensioner 14th Regiment Registration district: Bradford Sub-registration district: Bradford, East End ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4444 Folio: 74 Page Number: 13 Household Members: Name Age Charles Ingham 39 Ann Ingham 38 <<Lanarkshire Andrew Ingham 20 <<Wellington, New Zealand Margaret E. Ingham 18 <<Wellington, New Zealand Sophia Ingham 16 <<Wellington, New Zealand Charles Ingham 14 <<Melbourne, Australia William J. Ingham 12 <<Melbourne, Australia George T. Ingham 10 <<Chester, Cheshire, England Alexander Ingham 6 <<Bradford, Yorkshire, England Albert Ingham 1 <<Bradford, Yorkshire, England
1891 England Census Name: William Ingram Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Son Father's Name: Charles Ingram Mother's Name: Ann Ingram Gender: Male Where born: Australia Civil parish: Bradford Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England
10 Radnor St Registration district: Bradford Sub-registration district: Bradford East End ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3623 Folio: 26 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Charles Ingram 52 <<Time keeper Ann Ingram 52 Sophia Ingram 26 William Ingram 23 George Ingram 19 Albert Edwd Ingram 10 1901 England Census about Charles Ingram Name: Charles Ingram Age: 60 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Ingram Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Bradford Ecclesiastical parish: Bradford St Clement County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Bradford Sub-registration district: Bradford East ED, institution, or vessel: 33 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 275 Piece: 4151 Folio: 74 Page Number: 44 Household Members: Name Age Charles Ingram 60 Ann Ingram 60 George Ingram 28 Albert L Ingram 20
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Fredk
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6 May 2013 06:52 |
1911 Census Household Record Household information Address 14 Falmouth Street Leeds Parish Leeds Town Leeds Type of Building Private House Number of Rooms 3 Inhabited Y Reference RG14PN26942 RG78PN1546 RD500 SD1 ED27 SN37 Administrative County Yorkshire (West Riding) Registration District Leeds Registration Sub District South East Leeds Enumeration District 27 Householder 1 Name Charles Ingram Relationship to Head of Household Head Condition / Years Married Widower Gender M Age 44 Estimated Year of Birth 1867 Occupation Labourer Mechanics Employed Y Working at Home N Industry Forge Place of Birth Hobart Town Lasmania Nationality British Subject By Parentage Householder 2 Name Ann Ingram Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Condition / Years Married Single Gender F Age 20 Estimated Year of Birth 1891 Occupation Housekeeper Employed N Working at Home Y Place of Birth Yorks Bradford Householder 3 Name Faweett Ingram Relationship to Head of Household Son Gender M Age 18 Estimated Year of Birth 1893 Occupation Lithographic Printer Employed Y Working at Home N Place of Birth Yorks Bradford Householder 4 Name Oliver Ingram Relationship to Head of Household Son Gender M Age 11 Estimated Year of Birth 1900 Occupation Juvenile Employed N Working at Home N Place of Birth Yorks Bradford Householder 5 Name Charles Ingram Relationship to Head of Household Son Gender M Age 7 Estimated Year of Birth 1904 Occupation Juvenile Employed N Working at Home N Place of Birth Yorks Leeds
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Gee
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6 May 2013 07:03 |
Im wondering if the family were not born in Tas or NZ and are in fact Scotish. Im not seeing births over in Oz?
1871 England Census Name: Charles Ingram Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relation: Son Father's Name: Charles Ingram Mother's Name: Annie Ingram Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Nether Hallam Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip Town: Sheffield County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow Sub-registration district: Nether Hallam ED, institution, or vessel: Sheffield Barracks Household schedule number: 1 Piece: 4665 Folio: 115 Page Number: 18 Household Members: Name Age Charles Ingram 32 Annie Ingram 30 Andrew Ingram 10 Margaret Ingram 8 Sophia Ingram 6 Charles Ingram 4 William Ingram 2 <<Oz
There is this possible birth for the 2 year old William above
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 Name: William Ingram Father's Name: Charles Ingram Mother's Name: Ann Mackey Birth Place: Emerald Hill, Victoria Registration Year: 1869 Registration Place: Victoria Registration number: 22202
A free search on Scotlands People brings up three possible marriage for Charles
Statutory Register Marriages 1860 - 1867.Learn more. 3 matches
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Gee
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6 May 2013 07:11 |
They claim to be from all over the place!
Here is Charles sister with her son Ralph, living with the mother
1911 England Census Name: Ralph Dixon Age in 1911: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897 Relation to Head: Grandson Gender: Male Birth Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England Civil parish: Bradford County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding Country: England Street Address: 14 Coach Row Bradford Moor (yorks) Occupation: Accountants Office Registration district: Bradford Registration District Number: 498 Sub-registration district: Bowling ED, institution, or vessel: 45 Piece: 26719 Household Members: Name Age Ann Ingram 71 <<Donegal Albert Ingram 30 <<Bradford Sophia Dixon 45 <<New Z Ralph Dixon 14
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Gee
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6 May 2013 10:07 |
Looks like the birth that I posted for William (above) is correct. Here are baptisms for other children of Charles and Ann
West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 Name: Ann Ingram Birth Date: 7 Sep 1876 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Baptism Date: 19 Oct 1876 Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<Soldier Mother's Name: Ann Ingram (Formally Mackie)
West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 Name: Ann Ingram Birth Date: 7 Sep 1876 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Baptism Date: 19 Oct 1876 Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<Time keeper Mother's Name: Ann Ingram (Formally Mackay) West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 Name: Alexander Ingham Birth Date: 25 Apr 1874 Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral) Baptism Date: 3 Jun 1874 Father's Name: Charles Ingham <<Soldier Mother's Name: Ann Ingham West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 Name: George Thomas Ingram Birth Date: 14 Sep 1871 Parish: Bowling, St John Baptism Date: 11 Mar 1872 Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<Soldier Mother's Name: Ann Ingram
Being as Charles was listed as a soldier, it might be helpful if someone with a sub to FMP could look at overseas marriages for Charles and Ann?
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AnnCardiff
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6 May 2013 12:11 |
Name: Oliver Ingram Event Type: Census Event Date: 31 Mar 1901 Gender: Age: 1 Relationship to Head of Household: Son Birthplace: Bradford, Yorkshire Schedule Type: Household Registration District: Hunslet Sub-District: Hunslet Ecclesiastical Parish: St Judes Civil Parish: Hunslet District/Parish/County: Yorkshire (West Riding)
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Tichey
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6 May 2013 14:56 |
Thanks Gins.1901 census information I have.
Charles Ingram. 34yr old Born in Tasmania I am asking is there anyone with access to Tasmania records. I am Seeking to know. Where Charles was born in Tasmania. Name of Parents and any siblings. When and to where did they return to England. Did he return with his family or on his own?
The1881 Census Charles Ingram could indeed be Charles as a 14yr old with his family. Well done and thank you for your help. You relay seem to have the hang of this. You are genius. Much appreciated. Have a great week Patricia.. :-) :-) :-) <3 <3
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 15:07 |
Hello Patricia - you're asking for further help but you've marked the thread as answered (if you tick one person's reply as answered it marks the whole thread accordingly).
If you go to your very first post there should be a purple button that says something like "mark this as unanswered" - click on that to remove the tick or people may not realise the query is ongoing and ignore it.
While you're doing that click on "edit" and you can then amend the title of your thread to include Tasmania - that way the helpers who specialise in down under records are more likely to spot it.
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 15:43 |
Patricia, given that the census for Charles born 1867 have been posted from 1871 onwards, where he is shown with his parents and siblings I don't know why you're asking if he came to England on his own or with his family?
Seeing as his father was a soldier then they probably moved around as a family.
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 16:14 |
This looks like a possible for his birth:
Armed Forces registration event: Birth
Name: INGRAM, Charles Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966 Station: Melbourne Country: Unknown Year: 1860-1867 Page: 471 Record source: GRO Army Chaplains Birth Indices (1796 to 1880)
I think you can order from GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 16:53 |
pm from Patricia - she's going to order that certificate.
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Gee
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6 May 2013 17:05 |
Nice one MC........it's been driving me nuts today!
Are there records for the other children born overseas?
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 18:14 |
Not seeing anything obvious Gins .....
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Fredk
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6 May 2013 18:20 |
Still has thread marked as answered
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 19:01 |
Well, I suppose it is now that we've found what looks like the birth Fredk.
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Cherilyn
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7 May 2013 09:28 |
I can only see the birth of son William in Emerald Hill, Victoria to Chas & Ann (nee MACKIE). Nothing for Chas jnr in Vic, NSW or Tasmania. Nor the births in NZ.
BUT this rather sad newspaper article I happened upon at NLA Trove does place them in Emerald Hill at the right time, and also mentions the 14th Regiment (Chas occupation in 1881 UK census is Stuff Warehouseman Pensioner 14th Regiment). Sounds like Ann and the children were lucky to escape the fire. This is an excerpt:
The Argus, Monday 7 March 1870 INQUEST THE FIRE AT EMERALD-HILL. An inquest was hold on Saturday at the South Park Hotel, Moray-street. Emerald Hill, before the city coroner, Dr. Youl, on the body of an infant named Rosetta Hoy, aged three months, the daughter of Michael Hoy a private soldier in the 14th Regiment. The deceased was burnt to death on the night of the 3rd inst, during a fire which originated on the premises occupied by Duncan Finlayson as a grocer's shop. The first witness examiined was Duncan Finlayson, who stated that he carried on the business of a grocer on the premises at the corner of Moray and Raglan streets. The house was of wood, and consisted of four rooms and a shop. He occupied the shop and two rooms at the back. The two front rooms were let to a person named Ingram, a soldier in the 14th Regiment. Elizabeth Hoy and the deceased child lived with the Ingrams. On the night of the 3rd inst. witness left the shop about half-past 8 o'clock ; the shutters were up, but the shop was not closed ; his daughter was in charge. He went down Clarendon-street to a meeting for the purpose of establishing a lodge. He had been away about an hour and a half when he heard the firebell, and on going up the street he found it was his own shop that was on fire. The stock is insured in the Adelaide office for £200. ... Ann Ingram, wife of Charles Ingram, a soldier in the 14th Regiment, rented a part of Finlay son's house in Moray-street. On the night of the fire she heard the girl close the door about 10 o'clock. Five minutes afterwards she heard a crackling sound, but took no notice of it at first, but as it grew louder sho opened the door and saw flames at the back of the shop close to the partition. Witness ran to Mrs. Hoy, who slept in the room the furthest from the fire. She seemed half stupid, and said she would go to the other shop and call Finlayson. Witness called on her to come back, but she seemed confused and ran on. Witness had five children in the house, and had some difficulty in gotting them out. Everything she had was destroyed in the fire. [It was believed the fire had been delberately lit :-(]
Other newspapers (including in Tasmania) incorrectly reported that it was a child of Private Ingram who had died in the fire.
Also, the 5 children stated tallies with the ones named in the 1871 census, and their birthplaces also fit with the regiment having been in NZ first: (see next post) Andrew Ingram 10 Margaret Ingram 8 Sophia Ingram 6 Charles Ingram 4 William Ingram 2 Perhaps after the fire they decided to go back to England? Certainly narrows down when they travelled (ie between March 1870 and when the 1871 census was taken). Maybe the army sent them back because I can't see their departure in the usual index. Note in 1871 they were at Sheffield Barracks.
Can't find a marriage for them though in England, NZ or Aus. Since Ann was also Scottish, I suspect that is where you need to look.
P.S. Interestingly, the child of Michael & Elizabeth HOY was born in 1869 in Adelaide...but nothing for the INGRAMs there either!
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Cherilyn
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7 May 2013 09:47 |
I think the 14th Regiment refers to West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) (14th Foot). This from Wikipedia: "1858 saw a second battalion raised once more and took part in the New Zealand Wars of 1860-6" which would explain why he was in NZ around that time...
From Paperspast (NZ newspapers): Wellington Independent, Volume XV, Issue 1475, 27 November 1860, Page 5 The 2nd battalion of the 14th regiment, sailed for New Zealand nearly three weeks ago, to relieve the 65th but the battalion is inexperienced, and not likely to render very efficient services in the kind of warfare for which they will be required. We trust, therefore, that additional strength will be obtained forthwith and that if the Home Government have not seen the necessity of supplying it, the Colonial Government will feel the responsibility of acting with that promptitude and energy which the occasion imperatively demands.
There are later articles that extol the bravery of the men. :-)
From www.jaunay.com/garrisons.html The following British regiments were known to have served in Australian colonies until all garrison forces were withdrawn in 1870.: 1866–1870 2/14th [2nd Battalion Buckinghamshire] Melbourne; Hobart; Adelaide; Perth; Fremantle; Sydney - from NZ; to England
2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment arrived in Australia in 1867, seeing service in Tasmania, Sydney ,Victoria & Swan River, returning to England in 1870.
:-)
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Cherilyn
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7 May 2013 10:28 |
If you can fork out the A$20 for a Victorian birth certificate, William's 1869 birth certificate may reveal more. It must be paid online by credit card and can be downloaded instantly as a pdf.
It should not only state both parents birthplaces but the date of their marriage and any previous children.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
I'm wondering if the births of the other children were never registered in the usual way, perhaps they were unaware of the requirements and just went through the army chaplains for the baptism/christening (as per this record posted by MC)? Name: INGRAM, Charles Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966 Station: Melbourne Country: Unknown Year: 1860-1867 Page: 471 Record source: GRO Army Chaplains Birth Indices (1796 to 1880)
As MC says, you can order this certificate through the GRO, see www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/birthmarriagedeatharmedforces.htm
You can also view this record (for a fee) at FMP.
So nope his dad was not a convict but a soldier! :)
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