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AnnMac
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29 Jan 2013 16:27 |
I've hit a brickwall tracing my great grandfather John Smith McKeand and would be hugely grateful for any help or suggestions. He was a policeman in the Liverpool area, married twice and had 13 children in total so surely some other descendant is out there trying to find him! I've found him in the 1881-1911 censuses and have the certificate of his first marriage in 1876 to a Mary Proctor. He is described in the census returns as having been born in Scotland and that fits with family recall, but no-one knows when he moved south. The 1911 census says he was from Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbrightshire, others say Dumfrieshire. Maxwelltown is now a suburb of Dumfries so its possible both are right. BUT I can't find him in the 1871 census (age c 17yrs) or the 1861 census (age 7yrs) in Scotland or England. Nor can I find a record of his birth. The 1876 marriage certificate gives his father's name as John McKeand, labourer - no indication of whether he was still alive at the time. Can't find him in the Scottish censuses either, Any ideas of what I might try next? It seems so odd for someone to be completely documented from age 23 onwards but for there to be no trace before that. Many thanks, Ann PS Sorry for length of post - hope I've included all the salient details
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brummiejan
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29 Jan 2013 16:43 |
Might be him 1871, though it doesn't help!!
1871 Scotland Census Name: John Mckeand Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relationship: Visitor Gender: Male Where born: Dumfries, Dumfriesshire Registration number: 871 Registration district: Kirkcudbright Civil parish: Kirkcudbright Town: Kirkcudbright County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: High Street
Agnes Korgan 71 John K Milligan 40 Jean Mckeand 15 John Mckeand 17 Samuel McConaty 62
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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29 Jan 2013 16:59 |
Scottish BMDs dint start til 1855 so he wouldnt have been reg
Have you tried Scotlands People for a possible baptism
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alviegal
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29 Jan 2013 17:07 |
Could this be his sister in above census?
parents: John Mckend,? Elizabeth Mccourtie name: Jane Smith Mckend gender: Female birth date: 12 Aug 1855 birthplace: IRONGRAY,KIRKCUDBRIGHT,SCOTLAND father's name: John Mckend mother's name: Elizabeth Mccourtie indexing project (batch) number: C11867-1 system origin: Scotland-ODM
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Maddie
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29 Jan 2013 17:08 |
bit of a long shot name: John Mckeand gender: Male baptism/christening date: 09 Mar 1851 baptism/christening place: , GLENCAIRN, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND birth date: 15 Dec 1850 birthplace: death date: name note: race: father's name: John Mckeand father's birthplace: father's age: mother's name: Agnes Reid mother's birthplace: mother's age: indexing project (batch) number: C11826-4 system origin: Scotland-VR source film number: 1067962 reference number: - 2:1623069 Citing this Record
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alviegal
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29 Jan 2013 17:14 |
Other births to that couple.
1)Marianne Mckeand
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 birth: 19 Feb 1838 ,? Borgue,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland christening: ,? BORGUE,? KIRKCUDBRIGHT,? SCOTLAND residence: 1838 Borgue,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland parents: John Mckeand,? Elizabeth Mccourtie
2)Alexander Mckeand
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 birth: 05 Dec 1836 ,? Borgue,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland christening: ,? BORGUE,? KIRKCUDBRIGHT,? SCOTLAND residence: 1836 Borgue,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland parents: John Mckeand,? Elizabeth Mccourtie
3)Margaret Crosbie Mckeand
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 birth: 11 Jan 1833 christening: 05 Feb 1833 ,? BALMAGHIE,? KIRKCUDBRIGHT,? SCOTLAND residence: 1833 Balmaghie,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland parents: John Mckeand,? Elizabeth Mccourty
4)Jane Keand
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 birth: 03 Oct 1834 ,? Twynholm,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland christening: ,? TWYNHOLM,? KIRKCUDBRIGHT,? SCOTLAND residence: 1834 Twynholm,? Kirkcudbright,? Scotland parents: John Keand,? Elizabeth Mccourtie
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alviegal
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29 Jan 2013 17:18 |
1841 Scotland Census about Margaret Reand Name: Margaret Reand [Margaret McKeand] Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833 Gender: Female Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland Civil parish: Borgue County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: Upper Senwick Parish Number: 858 Household Members: Name Age Mr. John Reand 25, ag lab Elisabeth Reand 25 Margaret Reand 8 Janet Reand 6 Mary Reand 3 Elisabeth Reand 10 Mo Mexander Reand 70
John McKeand husband Elizabeth McCourtie married: 27 Jul 1832 Buittle, Kirkcudbright... Son Alexander & Mary
This is a comment that was posted with the correction.
1851 Scotland Census about Maryann McKen Name: Maryann McKen [Maryann McKeand] Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: John McKen Mother's Name: Elesabeth McKen Gender: Female Where born: Borgue, kirkcudbright Parish Number: 882 Civil parish: Troqueer County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: 66 Colledge Street Occupation: At School ED: 24 Page: 6 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 23 Line: 9 Roll: CSSCT1851_214 Household Members: Name Age John McKen 38 Elesabeth McKen 39 Maryann McKen 13 Elesabeth McKen 10 Agness McKen 8 Matilda McKen 4 Ann P McKen 1
1861 Scotland Census about John Mckeand Name: John Mckeand Age: 58 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Elizabeth Mckeand Gender: Male Where born: Kirkinner, Wigtown Registration number: 897 Registration district: Sorbie Civil parish: Sorbie County: Wigtownshire Address: Sorbie Village Occupation: Ploughman ED: 6 Household schedule number: 8 Line: 1 Roll: CSSCT1861_149 Household Members: Name Age John Mckeand 58 Elizabeth Mckeand 56 Matilda Mckeand 15
No sign of John though. Drat :-( :-(
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rootgatherer
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29 Jan 2013 17:27 |
This is the John born in 1851
Name: John Mckeand [John McKen] Age: 4 Mo Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relationship: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Glencairn, Dumfries Parish Number: 826 Civil parish: Glencairn Town: Dunreggan County: Dumfriesshire Address: Dunreggan ED: 7 Page: 9 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 53 Line: 12 Roll: CSSCT1851_207 Household Members: Name Age James Reid 61 Agnes Reid 53 Agnes Reid 29 Hannah Reid 27 Catherine Reid 25 Grace Reid 12 James Reid 3 John Mckeand 3 months
And the correction added
John McKen rather than John Mckeand John McKen is the son of Agnes Reid. John dies in Yorkton, Saskatchewan, Canada.
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AnnMac
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29 Jan 2013 17:29 |
Thank you everyone for these suggestions. BrummieJan - I had also found the 1871Census entry with John visitng a household with a servant called Jean Mckeand, possibly younger sister. Thought that was a lead but I can't find a family in 1861 with a bro' and sister called john and jean from Dumfries. I'll look into the Jane McKend option and see if I can find that family in 1861. The Agnes Reid mother thread does make him at least 2 years too old but I'll check it out. Not there yet but you've renewed my enthusiasm for pressing on with this!
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rootgatherer
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29 Jan 2013 17:30 |
Might be worth checking out that 1855 birth for Jane Smith McKeand on Scotlandspeople. I think the 1855 entries give more info than later ones.
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AnnMac
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29 Jan 2013 17:43 |
Rootgatherer. Not sure I quite understand your post . This help is coming in so thick and fast I can't keep up! If the John McKeand you've found died in Canada then He can't be my 1853 born gt grandfather becuase he died in wirral Cheshire in 1937. Am I safe to ignore that possible line of enquiry or am I being dense? Ann
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rootgatherer
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29 Jan 2013 17:50 |
I posted that census showing the John McKeand born 1851 just to eliminate as he seems from that correction on Ancestry to have died in Canada - so he can't be yours.
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AnnMac
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29 Jan 2013 17:51 |
Rootgather again. Thanks for the suggestion of looking for a possible sibling in the 1855 births because they give such good level of detail. I'm afraid i already tried that - can't honestly remember now what I found and I seem to have lost my notes - but it didn't get me to the answer I'm looking for. The amazing thing I'm learning from all these dead ends tho' is the curiuos family set ups that there were in those days - kids produced in eye watering numbers, offspring parked with relatives and daughters sent into domestic service at very young ages. It's hiostory in the raw, even iof it isn't my exact ancestors!
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rootgatherer
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29 Jan 2013 17:55 |
This is from Scotlandspeople website showing what you can expect to see on a Statutory birth record.
Births The following table indicates when particular details were introduced to and/or removed from statutory birth registration. Please note that only images of statutory births from 1855 to 1910 are presently available to view on this site.
Registers of Births Date Range Child: name, sex, date, time & place of birth 1855 to date Mother: name & maiden surname 1855 to date Mother: occupation (usually shown only if parents not married or no father's name given) 1855 - 1998 Mother: occupation 1999 to date Mother: age & place of birth 1855 only Father: name & rank, profession or occupation 1855 to date Father: age & place of birth 1855 only Parents: date & place of marriage 1855 only, then 1861 to date Siblings: parents' other children, living or deceased (numbers and sex only) 1855 only Informant: qualification & signature (address if different from location of birth) 1855 to date Registrar: date & place of registration, signature 1855 to date
So if you get some credits and checkout the birth in 1855 for Jane Smith McKeand it may help you.
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Eringobragh1916
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29 Jan 2013 17:58 |
If you do a quick search for McKeand...Lancashire 1871 onwards....(use search on this site) you will see there are a couple or more McKeand's listed for Toxteth Park and West Derby from Kirk./Dumfries...It may be worthwhile looking initially at Liverpool for other family if you havent already done so....
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AnnMac
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29 Jan 2013 18:15 |
I fear I have already searched in Liverpool in 1871 and 1861 (in case my chap came as child with his family) but no joy. There is a scottish born David McKeand policeman and family living quite close to where my family was (West Derby and Toxteth Park keep cropping up as locations for my grandmother and her sisters)- but they are the wrong forename, age and offspring's names to be my ancestor himself. I was considering checking out if this might be an uncle or cousin who struck out from the home country and sent back good news so a younger relative followed in his career footsteps.
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rootgatherer
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29 Jan 2013 18:17 |
Looked at that Birth on SP
Father John McKend a Farm Servant aged 43 years. Parents married 1834 Kelton.
2 boys and 2 Girls living 1 Boy and 1 Girl had died.
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rootgatherer
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29 Jan 2013 18:40 |
????
1841
Name: Mr. John Reand [John McKeand] Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Gender: Male Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland Civil parish: Borgue County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: Upper Senwick Occupation: Ag Lab Parish Number: 858 Household Members: Name Age Mr. John Reand 25 Elisabeth Reand 25 Margaret Reand 8 Janet Reand 6 Mary Reand 3 Elisabeth Reand 10 Mo Mexander Reand 70
The corrections added
Name John McKeand rather than John Reand See freecen.org.uk Submitted by santosjames on 07/11/2012
Comments John McKeand husband Elizabeth McCourtie married: 27 Jul 1832 Buittle, Kirkcudbright... Son Alexander & Mary Submitted by santosjames on 07/11/2012
Freecen version
Piece: SCT1841/858 Place: BORGUE -Kirkcudbrightshire Enumeration District: 5 Civil Parish: Borgue Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - Folio: 5 Page: 2 Address: Upper Senwick
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks MCKEAND John M 25 Agricultural Labourer Kirkcudbrightshire MCKEAND Elisabeth F 25 Kirkcudbrightshire MCKEAND Margaret F 8 Kirkcudbrightshire MCKEAND Janet F 6 Kirkcudbrightshire MCKEAND Mary F 3 Kirkcudbrightshire MCKEAND Elisabeth F 10m Kirkcudbrightshire MCKEAND Alexander M 70 Agricultural Labourer Kirkcudbrightshire
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Eringobragh1916
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29 Jan 2013 19:23 |
This may help....So he was certainly in the Lancashire area at that time... You can send for his details on this link... http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/records/policesearch.asp
First names: JohnSmith Surname: McKeand Location: Lancashire
Records are held for Lancashire Constabulary, for period of 1873-1874 (REF: PLA 11/18)
Also a William Chambers McKeand 1909-1912
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AnnMac
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29 Jan 2013 22:03 |
Rootgatherer - I'm really grateful but a tad confused! Whose birth have you found with a fatherJohn McKeand farm labourer aged 43?Was it jane smith mckeand? That record doesn't seem to quite match the marriage to Elizabeth McCourtie in 1832. I've tried to find these records myself and I'm failing dismally! The 1841 family that you've listed with parents aged 25 and 4 daughters might be mine - the older siblings of john Smith and jane smith mckeand- but to show that surely I'd have to find them in 1851 and then 1861 but I can't seem to get any results that match. It would also be heck of a long reproductive lifespan for Elizabeth, married in 1832 and still giving birth in 1855. Makes me tired just to think of it!
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