Find Ancestors

I'm afraid not, Sue. What I find intriguing is that in the 1861 census, Thomas is living at King Street, Croydon with his brother Michael KEATING, a bricklayer's labourer, together with the latter's wife Jane and their children Ellen, Michael & Mary. Michael and family then seem to disappear completely after this date, and I can find no immigration or death records for any of them. As this coincides with the period when Thomas decided to become DONOVAN (if he did), I am wondering if the two are connected. No answers, though!

Michael
Thanks for your comments. I'm still trying to pursue various theories concerning the Keatings/Donovans, but have nothing further to add at present.
It's interesting though frustrating! I assume your partner's ancestor didn't happen to have a Thomas Donovan handily staying with her at any time?

Further to my last post, I have now caught up with the fact that Eliza's maiden name was WESSSON, so that disposes of my own hypothesis too! It does seem highly probable that Thomas KEATING and Thomas DONOVAN were the same person. I have drawn a complete blank on what happened to Thomas after 1871, as apparently has everyone else.

I've only just caught up with this thread, which is of interest to me as my partner is descended from Mary KEATING, sister of the Thomas KEATING in the 1871 census as posted earlier: Thomas was her 2x great-grand uncle. I believe that the 1881 census show 'CATIN' which is clearly a variant spelling, as previously suggested: the family name appears elsewhere as KATON. As Thomas KEATING was born at Dunton Green, the tie-up seems fairly conclusive.

I think it disposes of the theory that "it's not Keatings changing to Donovans, but the other way round" as Thomas's father and siblings are all recorded as KEATING in earlier records. Is the answer simply that Thomas and Eliza were not legally married at all, so the children were recorded in her maiden name? I have examples of his happening parts of my tree.

That's great.

Thanks very much.
Sue

I would be confident that Eliza is Jane Maria's mother.

Will check out that US record later.

Hi MarieCeleste

Thank you so much for all your help, and yes, sorry I did mean Thomas Donovan married Eliza Wesson.

I too can't make up my mind if Thomas Keating and Thomas Donovan are the same person but it does seem a little odd that only TK appears until 1871 and then neither of them appear after that. I can't find a death for either of them, and Eliza says she's married in every census until 1911 when she calls herself a widow. I did find a Thomas Kating going to American in 1872 which would tie up with the dates, but obviously I don't know if it was him.

I think I can be certain though that Eliza is Jane Maria Donovan's mother because both JMD and Michael Donovan were married (in 1889 and 1890) from 72 Foster Rd which is where Eliza was living, with Michael in 1891. Would you agree?

Thanks again.

I can't make my mind up whether or not Thomas Keating and Thomas Donovan are the same person.

Thomas Keating's father was Michael, a fruit dealer (also confirmed in 1841 census when he is an orange merchant). On the 1869 marriage Thomas Donovan's father is allegedly also Thomas Donovan, a labourer.

Did Eliza have a brief split from Thomas Keating, marry a Thomas Donovan, and then get back with Thomas Keating in time for the 1871 census?

Or (more likely) did Thomas Keating give false details on the 1869 marriage to cover something up (perhaps already married)? Invented a father with the same details as himself? Is this why Eliza isn't with him in later census - did she find something out about him?

Sue, you mentioned the baptisms of the children as K(e)ating prior to the 1869 marriage

Surrey, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912
Name: Ellen Louisa Kating
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1865
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1868
Archive Provided Parish: Croydon, Holy Saviour
Parish as it Appears: Croydon, St Saviour
Father: Thomas Kating - labourer, 3 Bensham Cottages
Mother: Eliza Kating
Reference Number: 7406/1/2

Baptised the same day is Michael.

ALSO baptised with them is George Henry WESSON, mother Eliza of 3 Bensham Cottages. He was born 9 Feb 1858.

And this would be him in 1851

1851 England Census
Name: Thomas Keating
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Michael Keating
Mother's name: Ellen Keating
Gender: Male

Where born: Otford, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Otford
County/Island: Kent

Country: England
Street address: Dunton Green
Occupation: Ag lab
Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub-registration district: Sevenoaks
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Household schedule number: 3
Piece: 1613
Folio: 84
Page Number: 1

Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Keating 72 - Dealer in fruit, born Ireland
Ellen Keating 55
Jane Keating 20
Michael Keating 18
Thomas Keating 17
James Golds 7
John Withers 50

Going by the age and birthplace I'd say this is Eliza's partner from the 1871 census:

1861 England Census
Name: Thomas Keating
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: 1835
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Duncan Green, Kent, England <<<
Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: King Street
Occupation: Bricklayer's labourer
Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 82
Piece: 448
Folio: 78
Page Number: 24

Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Keating 27 - bricklayer's labourer, born Ireland
Jane Keating 28
Ellen Keating 6
Michael Keating 4
Mary Keating 1
Thomas Keating 26 ***
Susan Simpson 27
Harriet Redford 18
George Mitchell 26

I know I'm straying from the Donovan/Keating conundrum but just hunting around for clues. I think the 3 year old George listed here as son of James and Jane may actually be Eliza's son and be the 13 year old George with her in 1871.

1861 England Census
Name: Eliza Wesson
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: 1840
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Wesson
Mother's name: Jane Wesson
Gender: Female
Where born: Croydon, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: 5 Bensham Cottages
Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 245
Piece: 450
Folio: 25
Page Number: 52

Household Members:
Name Age
James Wesson 53 - Farm labourer
Jane Wesson 43
James Wesson 23
Eliza Wesson 21
Elizabeth Wesson 19
Joseph Wesson 16
William Wesson 14
Ellen Wesson 12
Emma Wesson 4
George Wesson 3 ***
Paul Wesson 1

Just putting that 1871 here for clues, the name on the image looks as though it's written as Catin which is probably phonetic for Keating and as they were illiterate then they wouldn't be aware of spelling.

1871 England Census

Name: Thomas Calin
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Calin
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunton Green, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon

ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Household schedule number: 269
Piece: 842
Folio: 124
Page Number: 58

Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Calin 36
Eliza Calin 32
George Calore 13
Ellen Calore 5
Michel Calore 4
Jane Calore 4 Months

Everyone born Croydon except Thomas

It appears it's not Keatings changing to Donovans, but the other way round.

Sue, you said Eliza Wesson and Thomas KEATING were married 1869 - not according to this record:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915

Name: Eliza Wesson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1869
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 268

Records on Page:
Name
Thomas Donovon ?????
Sarah Pike
James Varnham
Eliza Wesson


ADDED:

Surrey, England, Marriages, 1754-1937

Name: Eliza Wesson

Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 9 May 1869
Archive Provided Parish: Croydon, St John
Parish as it Appears: Croydon

Spouse: Thomas Donovon - labourer
Spouse Age: Full Age

Father: James Wesson - labourer
Spouse Father: Thomas Donovon - labourer

Reference Number: 2888/1/3

Both of full age and from Croydon, neither previously married. Both made their mark.

Witnesses: Ebenezer Whittaker & William Joseph Kilmister.

Looking at the image for the 1891 that is the clincher as there is a Thomas Wesson lodging with Eliza Keating (head of her own household) and they're all living at 72 Foster Road with (son) Michael Donovan and his family.

On 1881 & 1891 Eliza is married but where's Thomas Keating?

It's also possible that Thomas Keating and Thomas Donovan are two different people and the latter being the real father (just another theory). As regards Thomas Donovan being stated as a farmer on Jane's marriage - is it beyond the realms of possibility that there were farms in the Croydon area back then?

1881 census

Name: Jane Keating
Age (Original): 10
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1871
Birthplace: Croydon, Surrey, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Scholar
Address: 55 Forster Rd
Event Place: Croydon, Surrey, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341192
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 815 / 40
Page Number: 32
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Eliza Keating F 43 Croydon, Surrey, England
Son Michael Keating M 14 Croydon, Surrey, England
Daughter Jane Keating F 10 Croydon, Surrey, England

Sue


it all does seem to hang together.


It might help if (when?) you can afford one of the birth certificates to see what is on there.



I found a family like this when helping someone a few years back.


It turned out that they had changed their name after one census, and also moved away from their "home" village.

I found them on 3 censuses under the new name, then the father died .................. and they appeared on the next census under their original name.


We could only conclude that father had done something wrong, and so changed his name.

Thomas and Eliza are on the 1871 census (as Calin) with George (Eliza's illegitimate son from before her marriage), Ellen, Michael and Jane, all on a separate page and transcribed on Ancestry as Calore. Thomas Keating and Eliza Wesson were married in 1869. Ellen and Michael were born before this, and Jane Maria afterwards. All 3 siblings were baptised as Kating.

Eliza (Thomas' wife), Michael and Jane are on 1881 as Keating. Ellen Louisa marries as Donovan in 1888, Jane Maria marries as Donovan in 1889 and Michael marries as Donovan in 1890. I can't find Ellen's marriage cert on line, but Jane and Michael show their father as Thomas Donovan.

I'm possibly clutching at straws, but I really do think it's the same family.

Sue, have you got Eliza and Thomas plus the children together on a census?

Just thinking aloud, but if Eliza and Thomas weren't married (or at least until much later?) then that could account for baptisms in mother's name and marriages in father's name if that's what they were later known as.

Do you have the marriage record for Thomas and Eliza?