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Potty
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24 Mar 2014 12:03 |
I think this is James jnr's marriage:
James Jenkins , Carter, 47 Burlington St Birth Year:abt 1880 Age:22 Marriage Date:14 Sep 1902 Parish:Bevington, St Alban Spouse's Name:Charlotte Ellen Dodd Father's Name:James Jenkins , Carter Spouse Father's Name:Thomas Dodd, Carter
The witnesses are J McKinlay and Hannah Bella McKinlay.
The banns show that both were of the parish of St Alban.
Hannah was Charlotte's sister
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MarieCeleste
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23 Mar 2014 19:49 |
Why do you think your grandfather's birth may not have been registered?
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Births Mar 1882 Jenkins James W. Derby 8b 346
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MarieCeleste
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23 Mar 2014 19:42 |
These are the only baptisms I can find:
Liverpool, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 Name: Thomas Jenkins Birth Date: 25 May 1883 Baptism Date: 25 Jul 1883 Parish: Liverpool, All Saints Father's Name: James Jenkins - Carter Mother's name: Elizabeth Jenkins Reference Number: 283 ALS/2/2
Address: 4c14 Sheridan Street ...................................................................................................................
Liverpool, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 Name: Joseph Jenkins Birth Date: 15 May 1889 Baptism Date: 15 May 1889 Parish: Bevington, St Alban Father's Name: James Jenkins - Carter Mother's name: Elizabeth Jenkins Reference Number: 283 ALB/2/4
Address: 2c ??? Bond Street .....................................................................................................................
Liverpool, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 Name: John Jenkins Birth Date: 26 May 1897 Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1897 Parish: Bevington, St Alban Father's Name: James Jenkins - Labourer Mother's name: Elizabeth Jenkins Reference Number: 283 ALB/2/5
Address: 104 Ashfield Cottages <<<< ...............................................................................................................
I have a suspicion that they only had the babies baptised that may have been sickly and perhaps not expected to survive.
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MarieCeleste
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23 Mar 2014 19:26 |
I've done a bit of searching around and apparently Ashfield Cottages were around the Hopwood Street/Silvester Street area - that is less than 3 miles from Jersey Street.
I am definitely leaning towards it being the same family with two different people completing the census return.
Having said that, I haven't checked births and marriages for the names to see if there were two James & Josephs born similar times and two James and Elizabeths marrying.
Carol, do you have your grandfather's birth certificate for his mother's maiden name? And does his marriage certificate have an address on it?
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MarieCeleste
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23 Mar 2014 19:08 |
Personally, I'm not sure about the moonlight flit theory because surely they would have given the same names and ages for the children etc? BUT - what if they filled in one and someone else filled another in on their behalf?
Apologies for posting again the 1901 census that have already been posted but am hoping that posting them next to each other in the same format might make it easier to play "spot the difference"
JENKINS, James Head Married M 40 1861 Quay Carter Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 39 1862 Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, James Son Single M 20 1881 Quay Carter Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, Joseph Son Single M 10 1891 Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, Mary J Daughter Single F 8 1893 Liverpool, Lancashire
Piece: 3409 Folio: 27 Page: 45 Registration District: Liverpool Civil Parish: Liverpool
Address: 104, Ashfield Cottages, Liverpool County: Lancashire ..........................................................................................................................
JENKINS, James Head Married M 39 1862 Carter General Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 39 1862 Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, James Son Single M 18 1883 Carter General Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, Joseph Son M 11 1890 Liverpool, Lancashire JENKINS, Margaret Daughter F 9 1892 Liverpool, Lancashire
Piece: 3473 Folio: 117 Page: 42 Registration District: West Derby Civil Parish: Everton
Address: 6, Jersey Street, Everton County: Lancashire
Peculiar ......
EDIT: On the original image of EACH of those census the type of carter has been overwritten with "Carm" - I think that may be for census statistics to categorize workers, perhaps carman?
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Toosh
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23 Mar 2014 17:50 |
Thanks for your input, it is appreciated
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Potty
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23 Mar 2014 17:45 |
I suppose they could have done a moonlight flit but I think the way the census was done was for the enumerator to leave the forms to be filled in a few days before the census and then come back later to collect them and then to collate them onto the forms which we can see, so somebody would have had to have been in both places to return the forms. Or maybe they were in the middle of moving and filled in both forms and were living between the two places?
I can only find one family in previous censuses and nothing in the 1911, except for James jnr.
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Toosh
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23 Mar 2014 17:27 |
I did not know if they could have done a moonlight flit as they say after filling in one of the census records. I am clutching at straws here as I can't find the Jersey St family before 1901. I am trying to find the son James (my grandfather) as all I have to go on is 1911 census, and his marriage and death certificates, cannot even find his father, who according to his marriage cert was also called James. I am now thinking he may not have been registered when born.
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Potty
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23 Mar 2014 17:03 |
For info: Mary J Jenkins Age:8 Estimated birth year:abt 1893 Relation to Head:Daughter Father:James Jenkins - Quay Carter Mother:Elizabeth Jenkins Birth Place:Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil Parish:Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish:St Martin in the Fields Sub-registration district:St Martin
The Jersey St family:
1901 England Census Margaret Jenkins Age:9 Estimated birth year:abt 1892 Relation to Head:Daughter Gender:Female Father:James Jenkins Mother:Elizabeth Jenkins Birth Place:Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil Parish:Everton Ecclesiastical parish:St Polycarp County/Island:Lancashire Registration district:West Derby Sub-registration district:North Everton
James Jenkins 39 Elizabeth Jenkins 39 James Jenkins 18 Joseph Jenkins 11 Margaret Jenkins 9 James Jenkins 40 - Carter (general is crossed out and ?arm written over it Elizabeth Jenkins 39 James Jenkins 20 Joseph Jenkins 10 Mary J Jenkins What makes you think they could be the same family - they are living in completely different areas.
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Toosh
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23 Mar 2014 15:07 |
Hi to all I would like your views on the following. Do any of you think that the following could be the same family even though one has a Margaret and the other has a Mary J ???
I have a family called Jenkins (James 1862, Elizabeth 1862, James 1883, Joseph 1890, and Margaret 1892) they appear on the 1901 Census at Jersey Street, Liverpool. The Census says all born there. I have tried for a couple of years to find them but cannot trace this family any earlier than 1901. There is also, in 1901, another family with a James 40, Elizabeth 39, James 20, Joseph 10 and Mary J 8, she was actually born 1893, they are living at Ashfield Cottages in Liverpool, again the Census says all born Liverpool.
I have now found the location of Jersey Street in Liverpool. Sorry to bring this family up again but I am now desperate to find the ones in Jersey Street. Regards Carol
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Toosh
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14 Apr 2012 17:31 |
The one in Teulon Street and there is one in Ashfield cottages also in 1901, I have checked these out so really it is the ones in Jersey Street I could do to find earlier on. It is strange that in 1901 there are two families both with parents James and Elizabeth. Over the last 12 months or so people on here have tried to help but this is the first time I have asked for this specific family (Jersey St) to be searched
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Choccy
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14 Apr 2012 17:30 |
1881 England Census
Name: James Jenkins Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Jenkins Gender: Male Where born: Lpool Civil parish: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: 2 House 33 Court Hornby St Condition as to marriage: Married Education:
Employment status: View image Occupation: Carter Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Martin ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3597 Folio: 103 Page Number: 27 Household Members: Name Age James Jenkins 21 (Carter) Elizabeth Jenkins 20 James Jenkins 2
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3597; Folio: 103; Page: 27; GSU roll: 1341861.
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Choccy
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14 Apr 2012 17:17 |
1891
239 JENKINS, James Head Married M 30 1861 Porter Carting Liverpool VIEW 239 JENKINS, Elizabeth Wife Married F ? Liverpool VIEW 239 JENKINS, James Son M 11 1880 Liverpool VIEW 239 JENKINS, Thomas Son M 7 1884 Liverpool VIEW 239 JENKINS, Joseph Son M 2 1889 Liverpool VIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG12 Piece: 2959 Folio: 110 Page: 38 Sub District: Kirkdale Enumeration District: 8 Ecclesiastical Parish: St Marys Municipal Borough: Liverpool Address: 53, Teulon Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool County: Lancashire
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Choccy
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14 Apr 2012 17:14 |
??
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: James Jenkins Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1903 Age at Death: 41 Registration district: Liverpool Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 27
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Toosh
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14 Apr 2012 17:14 |
Hi Choccy that is the one I have and just hoping to find this family before the 1901 Census Thanks
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Choccy
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14 Apr 2012 16:58 |
for reference -
1901
264 JENKINS, James Head Married M 39 1862 Carter General Liverpool Lancashire VIEW 264 JENKINS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 39 1862 Liverpool Lancashire VIEW 264 JENKINS, James Son Single M 18 1883 Carter General Liverpool Lancashire VIEW 264 JENKINS, Joseph Son M 11 1890 Liverpool Lancashire VIEW 264 JENKINS, Margaret Daughter F 9 1892 Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG13 Piece: 3473 Folio: 117 Page: 42 Sub District: North Everton Enumeration District: 4 Ecclesiastical Parish: St Polycarp's Municipal Borough: Address: 6, Jersey Street, Everton County: Lancashire
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Toosh
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14 Apr 2012 16:58 |
Thank you but they are there in 1901 at 6 Jersey Street
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GlitterBaby
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14 Apr 2012 16:54 |
Well I did check a few in 1901 that were in Everton but gave up after about 8 - 10
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Toosh
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14 Apr 2012 16:52 |
Hi, sorry thought the name Jenkins would be enough James c.1862 Elizabeth c.1862 James c.1883 Joseph c.1890 Margaret 1892
They are all on the 1901 Census but cannot find any of them before that and I do realise that they could have possibly moved around
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GlitterBaby
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14 Apr 2012 16:30 |
1911 Rawlings and Knowles listed at that address
Would be easier to say who you were looking for
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