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5 Apr 2013 17:04 |
Hi There,
Not sure if this can be of assistance,
I have in my possession after my Grandfathers death probate wills for John William Davidson Knight of: 2 Orchard Street, Portman Square 29 Sepha Road, St Johns Wood & Prospect House, Saint Albans where he is listed as dying on the 13th June 1866
Also Sarah Knight
Their Children are listed as:
Sons: John William Knight Henry Edmund Knight Edwin Knight Edmund Knight Daughters: Isabella Knight Susannah Knight Cathrine Knight Juliana Knight Emily Knight Georgiana Knight
My Grandfather worked as Caretaker of Dominion House, St Bartholomew Close, London. At the time of working there (1960's roughly) we believe that there was a Vaughan Knight Living there.
There is also a reference to the Bombay Baroda & Central India Railway Company.
Hope this might be helpful.
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 21:20 |
There is this:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 Name: John Knight - Porter of Grange Court, Casey St Age: Full Age Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Spouse Name: Sarah Ann Mead - 6 Union St, Marylebone Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 17 Jul 1838 Parish: St Marylebone Borough: Westminster Father Name: Wm Knight - Shepherd deceased Spouse Father Name: Jonathan Mead - Saddler, deceased Witnesses: Thomas Higgs X(his mark) & Mary Laven Higgs Register Type: Parish Register
1841 England Census Name: Mary Higgs Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811 Gender: Female Where born: Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Marylebone Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division) County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address:Seymour Place, No 18
Occupation: Dressmaker
Registration district: St Marylebone Sub-registration district: St Mary
Piece: 679 Book: 6 Folio: 5 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Thos Higgs 40 - J. Harness maker [Perhaps known by Jonathon, the saddler?] Mary Higgs 30 Thos Higgs 5
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 Name: Thomas Higgs Record Type: Baptism Estimated Birth Date: abt 1835 Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1835 Father's Name: Thomas Higgs - Harness Maker of Prospect Place Mother's Name: Mary Higgs Parish or Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr Borough: Southwark Register Type: Parish Registers
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 20:30 |
Reviewing 1861: "Ignore Private, Army Hospital Corps". That one was born 1838.
The 1861 where your John is with his parents. He could have been home on leave. I've been trying to decipher the age and occupation with no luck. Also trying to make him a soldier or anything that could relate him to the army. The writing is so faint that I can't make it out.
I'm still trying to find him in 1841. He may have been left off in error. However the 1841 census was done on the 7 June which would make John 5 months. This makes 'S' being 11 months impossible. As 1841 doesn't give relationships she could be a relative rather than a daughter.
Another problem with 1841 (although address and occupation fit exactly with baptism) is that his father was born out of county, and his mother is born in county which is the opposite of 1851 & 1861. I guess there could be a mistake.
Ozi
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 19:56 |
From http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-forgotten-story-of-londons-porters/
The full-time porters were regulated by the City of London, and divided into two groups, the Fellowship Porters, who carried “measurable” goods (grain, coal, salt and the like) on and off ships moored in the Thames and in and out of warehouses, and the Ticket Porters.
The Ticket Porters, who wore a pewter badge carrying the arms of the City, a cross and a dagger, were subdivided into two themselves, the waterside Ticket Porters, who dealt with all ship-borne cargoes the Fellowship Porters did not carry, and the Street or Uptown Porters.
and from http://yourdemocracy.newstatesman.com/parliament/fellowship-porters-london/HAN517922
"The fellowship porters were the remains of an ancient body in the City of London. They had their origin several centuries ago, in connection with the privileges of the corporation of London. The corporation claimed the right of measuring all goods that came by the river Thames into London. The fellowship porters were appointed to do the measurement; and the corporation directed that they should pay one penny out of every shilling they earned," 1863
and again from http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-barnettporter.html
"All these boats and wagons needed to be unloaded. That job fell to the market porters. Historically, different grades of porter had existed, and in the mid-nineteenth century that was still the case. The most privileged were the 40-100 (it was seasonal work) Fellowship porters, so-called because they were Freemen of the City of London with residence qualifications (a throwback to the medieval days of the City Guilds). They had the right to carry from the ship to the market all fish or shellfish sold by the tale (number). Next, the Ticket porters had exclusive rights to carry dried fish such as herrings. For this they were able to charge 1 ½d per box. Below these were three types of unprivileged porters totalling about four hundred in number. Those known as ‘foreigners’ were paid to receive the fish unloaded by the Fellowship porters. In contrast ‘bobbers’ were sent out of the market with fish to distribute to local customers. Bottom of the pile were the ‘roughs’, casual labourers who would do any job required of them. That primarily involved helping railway staff to unload the wagons."
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 19:43 |
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 Name: Eliza Ann Knight Record Type: Baptism Estimated Birth Date: abt 1843 Baptism Date: 28 May 1843 Father's Name: John Knight Mother's Name: Sarah Knight Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Saviour Borough: Southwark Register Type: Parish Registers
Image has born 27 July 1842, father a Fellowship Porter of Bedford Row.
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 19:35 |
Looking at the image of the baptism Rutland Belle posted, it actually has he was born 3 Jan 1841. Father was a Fellowship Porter of New Park Street.
So the 1851 certainly looks like him.
This is his family in 1841, but where is he?
1841 England Census Name: J Knight Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811 Gender: Male Where born: Surrey, England Civil parish: St Saviour Hundred: Southwark County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street Address: Emerson Terrace, Park Street [A few pages back it is referred to as New Park Street, then N Park Street, eventually just Park Street. It is always followed by con'd.]
Occupation: F Porter
Registration district: St Saviour Sub-registration district: St Saviour
Piece: 1088 Book: 3 Folio: 14 Page Number: 22 Household Members: Name Age J Knight 30 S Knight 30 S Knight 11 MO - daughter; Not born in county. [Marylebone perhaps?]
???? Deaths Sep 1843 KNIGHT Sarah St. Saviour 4 331 Deaths Sep 1847 Knight Sarah S Saviour 4 377
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 19:21 |
???? Deaths Jun 1859 KNIGHT Eliza Ann St Olave 1d 40
" ...he always states that he was born in Marylebone. That of course could be the first place he remembers as his Eliza was born there" Who's Eliza? His sister? 1851 has her born St Saviour.
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Yanna
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8 Dec 2011 18:55 |
Thank you all for all your input. fantastic! I have his marriage information, he married in New Zealand, but at this time neither parents information was on the certificate. I can trace all his movements from his joining the army to his death, but other than his fathers name on the death certificate, I have nothing on his parents. On his army papers he stated that he was 19 years and no months on the 28th June in 1859. He could have lied about his age to enter the army, not sure of legal age for this. Because John Knight is such a common name, he is hard to trace! I believed that John and Sarah could be his parents, but that didn't fit with his age at time of Army registration. This has him born Jan 3 1841. On the census form 1851 with John and Sarah, it has John with a sister, but it does not appear that she is being researched. Sadly on everything else he did in his life he didn't put in a date of birth. I didn't have the info on the 1861 census and I'm fairly sure this could be him except that it doesn't mention on his papers that he spent time in the hospital corps! and in future docs he always states that he was born in Marylebone. That of course could be the first place he remembers as his Eliza was born there! I noticed on his demob papers he calls himself Sergeant Major "William" Knight, but signed docs as John. so names are interchangeable in 1896. I'm keen on Sarah and john as his parents, but just wish Eliza was being researched!
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 07:47 |
Do you think this could be him?
1861 England Census Name: John Knight Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Gender: Male Where born: St James, London, England Civil parish: Aldershot County/Island: Surrey Country: England
Occupation: Private Army Hospital Corps
Condition as to marriage: Single
Registration district: Farnham Sub-registration district: Frimley ED, institution, or vessel: Medical Department Lee and Aldershot Camp Piece: 431 Folio: 65 Page Number: 6
Then comes a page full of army personel.
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 07:39 |
Looks like the marriage cert is the only way.
Ozi
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Ozibird
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8 Dec 2011 07:27 |
OK, let's work from this.
1871 England Census Name: John Knight Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Anne Knight Gender: Male Where born: London, Middlesex, England [Doesn't help, does it?] Civil parish: Woolwich Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Woolwich County/Island: Kent Country: England
Occupation: Sergeant R.E.
Registration district: Woolwich Sub-registration district: Woolwich Arsenal ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Engineer Barracks <<<<
Piece: 786 Folio: 105 Page Number: 2 Household Members: Name Age John Knight 30 Anne Knight 23 - born Ireland Anne Knight 5 - born New Zealand John Knight 3 - born Aldershot, Hampshire
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patchem
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7 Dec 2011 22:35 |
Yanna posted that he joined the Royal engineers in London in 1859 and went to New Zealand until about 1867, so should not still be with his parents in 1861 in this country?
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Ozibird
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7 Dec 2011 20:06 |
Deaths Sep 1862 Knight Sarah St Olave 1d 26
This is a possibility as Southwark & Newington are adjacent. Marriages Dec 1868 Knight John Newington 1d 281 Lakeman William Newington 1d 281 Matthews Emma Maria Newington 1d 281 WALSH Catherine Newington 1d 281
1871 England Census Name: John Knight Age: 56 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Catherine Knight Gender: Male Where born: Christchurch, Surrey, England Civil parish: St John Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 16 Thomas St
Occupation: Labourer
Registration district: St Olave Southwark Sub-registration district: St John Horsleydown
Piece: 625 Folio: 59 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age John Knight 56 Catherine Knight 42 - born Dublin, Ireland
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Ozibird
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7 Dec 2011 19:41 |
1851 England Census Name: John Wm Knight Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 Relation: Son Father's Name: John Knight Mother's Name: Sarah Knight Gender: M (Male) Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England Civil parish: Southwark St John Horsleydown County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street Address: 14 Freeman's Lane
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: St Olave Southwark Sub-registration district: St Olave
Piece: 1559 Folio: 285 Page Number: 11 Household Members: Name Age John Knight 35 - Fruit ____er[?]; born Christchurch, Surrey Sarah Knight 36 - born Wales John Wm Knight 10 Eliza Ann Knight 8 - born St Saviour, Surrey
1861 England Census Name: John Knight Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Knight Gender: Male Where born: Christchurch, Surrey, England Civil parish: Southwark St Olave Ecclesiastical parish: St Olave County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street Address: 48 Weston St
Occupation: Grocer's Carman
Registration district: St Olave Southwark Sub-registration district: St Olave ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 99 Piece: 316 Folio: 112 Page Number: 15 Household Members: Name Age John Knight 45 Sarah Knight 48 - born Pontypool, Wales John W Knight 40 - Son; Grocer [I think]; born St Saviour Surrey. The age has been scrawled over so difficult to decipher. Though relationship is definitely 'son'.
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Gee
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7 Dec 2011 19:40 |
1864/3759 Ann Best John William Knight Order Product
You can buy the marriage cert from here and should give you details of his parents
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2fqueryEntry.m%3ftype%3dmarriages#SearchResults
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RutlandBelle
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7 Dec 2011 19:36 |
Children of John William Knight and Ann Best
Annie Knight Daughter 1865 Napier
died1900-05-16 Auckland John Isaac Knight Son 1867-08-31 Aldershot, Surrey, England 1904-02-16 Auckland William James Knight Son 1871-05-16 Woolwich
died 1872 Woolwich Alice Helena Knight Daughter 1873-01-17 Woolwich
Ada Knight Daughter 1875 Kent
Mary Knight Daughter 1880
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RutlandBelle
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7 Dec 2011 19:32 |
baptism
Name: John William Knight Record Type: Baptism Estimated Birth Date: abt 1842 Baptism Date: 15 May 1842 Father's Name: John Knight Mother's Name: Sarah Knight Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Saviour Borough: Southwark Register Type: Parish Registers
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RutlandBelle
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7 Dec 2011 19:22 |
someone has a John William Knight in a tree on Ancestry, married Ann Best 1864 Napier. Episcopalian Church , died Oct 1904 Auckland .his parents given as John and Sarah Knight and his birth as 1841 Southwark Surrey
Name: John William Knight Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1841 Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Inferred County: London, Surrey Volume: 4 Page: 488
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RutlandBelle
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7 Dec 2011 19:15 |
Yanna, , did he marry? If so you may have to get a marriage certificate as it is a fairly ordinary name and you really need his father's name which the cert would give.
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patchem
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7 Dec 2011 19:14 |
Did he ever marry? There are several possible John William Knights showing - how sure are you of the August 1840 in Marylebone as none fit these facts? Thanks
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