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Hello Reggie, thank you. As you see from my message I was aware of the age of the post. :) If you look at my other message linked in the above you see that I will indeed be contacting people directly by message about these family lines and I see I should have been clearer in my own head here that I would be including the Hoar relations in this discussion when I do that. It was late, it had been a long day, I was just getting a head start :) because it will take me a while to do the searching of family trees (especially with the different spellings of the surname and the different branches of the family) and sending the messages. Because this family in particular was already discussed here in this forum I did want to add the additional information about the Liskeard based Hoar family "for the record" and about the DNA project for anyone else who, like me, saw it later.

Also I see I didn't get a notice of your reply in this thread by email as happens in many forums so now I have worked it out that this only happens if I check Add to my watched threads (and fortunately I had worked out the My threads function). I had thought that the people who had posted in this thread might get a notice of my reply, but I see now that this is probably not so. I will soon be up to speed I hope!

The last posting on here was over 2 years ago...............

if you wish to make contact with people who posted in the distant past.........click on their names and send messages

Hello, I have just joined the site and have been looking for messages about Hore or Hoar or Hoare in Cornwall and found this one. I hope the people who posted here are still reading!

I have just posted a message in Genealogy Chat about the Hore Hoar family of the St Austell area and a DNA project about these surnames generally.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/tips_board/thread/1333764

I have seen baptism records at the Cornwall OPC site and other references on line to the Hoar family of Liskeard but I don't know whether they are directly connected with the St Austell people. I think they must be, as I recall they show up in Liskeard and that area rather late.

I think this is the baptism record for the senior Thomas in question in this thread (I got a little confused reading it but I think this is where it ends up)

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=2350658

Thomas Hoar baptised in Liskeard in May 1824 son of Thomas a labourer and Mary. They baptised 4 more children there,
Caroline 1823
John 1826
Francis 1828
Harriet 1830
but I don't see a marriage for Thomas and Mary. Between 1792 and 1803 a John and Mary couple baptised numerous children in Liskeard and there were other couples baptising after that but 1792 is the earliest. In the 1841 census there are several Hoar households in Liskeard but I don't see that family. I was hoping I might see a connection with the St Austell families but I think it is too late and I am too tired to see it even if it were there. :-)

Anyway if you are reading this and you read my message about the DNA project and are interested, send me a message and I can give you some more details!

I'm just going to add these here because they're easily found in censuses

and your worse misfortune is that Thomas father of Thomas Sr doesn't appear with his own family in any census


1841

Name: Thomas Hoar
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Gender: Male
Where born: Cornwall, England

Civil parish: Liskeard
Registration district: Bodmin (did I mention Bodmin earlier ? )

John Bunt 70 farmer
Elizabth Stephens 50
Elizabth Dyer 14
Susan Bray 13
Mathew Wilton 16
Thomas Hoar 17 male servant


1851

Name: Thomas Hoar
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Visitor
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: N

Civil parish: Liskeard
Registration district: Liskeard

Thomas Pooley 45
Mary Pooley 50
John W Pooley 16
Mary Pooley 12
Thomas Pooley 9
William Pooley 7
Thomas Hoar 23 sawyer ... so this is the right Thomas Hoar


in 1841 there are 50 people named Hoar in Liskeard ... plus 2 named Hoare ... plus 1 Hore ... and that's not counting the surrounding area

but I think I would plump for this household

Thomas Hoar 40 ... sawyer
Mary Hoar 45
Harriet Hoar 10
Mary Hoar 9
Ann Hoar 6
Elizabeth Hoar 2
William May 30
Elizabeth May 11

there is no son Thomas in residence as we might have expected to see :-)

your next stop will be the Cornwall OPC website

http://www.cornwall-opc.org/

'search database' is down at the bottom and you can also consult the page for each parish

... I am not seeing anything, but maybe familysearch will have something

ah but your misfortune now is that the Hoares you are looking for do come from Cornwall and soon they will be back before the censuses and BMDs ... just like mine :-)

I don't want to spoil your fun by doing those searches just because I am up late with nothing to do ... but I may puddle around with them a bit just to see whether I find any connections for my own interest ... because the Liskeard registration district is indeed where I -think- mine may have come from ... or at least where they may have been in the early 1800s, or come from and gone back to ... !!

( the North hill and St Stephens by Saltash possibility enthused me originally because I think that is where my ancestor who seems to have married my Hoar ancestor was from ... but I think the Hoar ancestor was from the Liskeard area )

You really are a star . :-D

I think you have cracked it with this one and surprise surprise in 1891 they are living in birmingham in new john street. (Thomas and Fanny)

Dont want to get too excited just yet but things are looking promising.

You see all the work you have done for your own hoares is paying off for me and i am really grateful. Lets hope with a few years of experience behind me i will be able to help others like you are helping me.


I hope you get to crack your hoares too.
Kind regards
Tracey

in 1911 mother Eliza is employed at the nail works
in 1901 she is a nail cutter


I am fairly convinced that this is the family in 1881 with yet another census worker having misheard the name


Name: Thomas Moore
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Moore
Mother's Name: Eliza Moore
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Street Address: 5 Court 12 Macdonald St

Thomas Moore 28 ... bedstead caster ... born Staffordshire Bilston
Eliza Moore 26 ... nail cutter ... born Warwickshire Birmingham
Thomas Moore 5


Thomas Sr's birthplace is wrong ... but it is the place where he in fact grew up


you are lucky that a Hore Hoar Hoare expert turned up ! ... if only I could find my own so easily :-D

and the third spelling perhaps ?

arriages Dec 1876
? Hore Thomas Birmingham 6d 264
KENT Hannah Birmingham 6d 264
Seddon Edward James Birmingham 6d 264
? Woolley Elizabeth Birmingham 6d 264

Births Mar 1855 ?
Woolley Elizabeth Birmingham 6d 117

Births Mar 1856 ?
WOOLLEY Eliza Birmingham 6d 145

there is also an Elizabeth Jane Woolley Q3 1856 Birmingham ... and there is an Elizabeth Mary De Graft Woolley Q2 1857 :-)

I wonder whether this could be your Thomas

Births Jun 1877
Hoares Thomas Birmingham 6d 161

yes ... there were dozens of 'Hoares's born in 1877 when in fact I doubt it is a name at all ... I suspect all because the transcriber misread 'Hoare" ...

and yes, yes, yes.

the list on the original page of the index is typed and the name at the top of that list is HOARE not HOARES so the transcriber made one mistake and it was applied to the whole list.

there he is your Thomas

when you apply for the birth certificate make the name HOARE and not Hoares because Hoare is what it says in the actual index

find that entry at FreeBMD or Ancestry and you will be able to look at the page to check

I will submit the correction for the whole list to FreeBMD

here is that household in 1861

Name: Thomas Hoar
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Hoar
Mother's Name: Fanny Hoar
Gender: Male
Where born: Liskeard, Cornwall, England

Civil parish: Bilston

Thomas Hoar 34
Fanny Hoar 30
Thomas Hoar 7
Alfred Hoar 5
Mary A Hoar 1



I would say it is almost a certainty this is your Thomas since at least there is no other such Thomas who landed up in Warwickshire !

it is not an uncommon name in the records in Cornwall ... unfortunately ... that is why I have had no luck sorting my own out :-)

the three spellings are all interchanged in my own family's history, what few records I have with the name ( one person whose name is spelled one way at his baptism while his brother's is spelled another, then differently in the 1851 census and differently again on his second marriage in the 1870s )

it is pronounced 'oar' which is why in that 1871 census the name was first written as something starting with an O ... I think it says Ower ... and then scratched out and written Hoar

from the little I have read it seems not to be related to the Hoare clans from other parts of England, whose name may be related to Haw and Hawes

Hi all

Thank you for all your help. Sorry i haven't been that great at posting info.

I really do think you might be onto something here. I will work with this new info and see what i find.

Many man thanks guys for your hard work , other trees i have worked on have been fairly straight forward . Not this one and with a name i didnt believe was that common , it certainly wasn't when i was growing up anyway.

Regards
Tracey

just because you never know what might tie in, here is the last bit

JOLLY ADA 1903 8

Births Sep 1902
Jolly Ada Aston 6d 344


This one looks promising in 1871 ... has moved from Cornwall to nearer Birmingham

Name: Thomas Hoar
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Hoar
Mother's Name: Fany Hoar
Gender: Male
Where born: Liscard, Cornwall, England [ it is Liskeard ]

Civil parish: Bilston
Town: Bilston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Registration district: Wolverhampton

Thomas Hoar 46 journeyman sawyer born 'Liscard'
Fany Hoar 37 --- born Birmingham
Thomas Hoar 17 coal miner
Alfred Hoar 15 born Birmingham
Mary A Hoar 11 born Bilston
Soloman Hoar 9 "
Esther Hoar 4 "
Elizabeth Hoar 3 "
Henry Hoar 2 Months "


I think I will place my money on this Thomas Sr :-)


Births Sep 1853
Hoare Thomas Liskeard 5c 76

Sorry if i am not being very clear with my post.


On the 1911 census it states 72 Richard Street Aston

HOARE, Thomas Head Married M 34 1877 Bricklayer Labourer

Warwickshire Bimingham HOARE, Mary Ann Wife Married 12 years F 34

1877 None Bimingham HOARE, Arther Son M 11 1900 School Bimingham

HOARE, Ada Daughter F 10 1901 School


1911
8 Court 5 Ho Richard St B'ham
HOARE, Thomas Head Married M 56 1855 Gas Maker Cornwall

Lancashire HOARE, Eliza Wife Married 37 years F 55 1856 Nail Works

Warwickshire Birmingham HOARE, Selina Daughter Single F 23 1888

Button Gilder Aston JOLLY, Ada Adopted

To Mary Ann Beesley 6d 479 St marys aston road birmingham. haven't yet ordered certificate. As mother living with son thomas and then showing her again with the correct familys children in 1911.

There is no records anywere before 1901 for Thomas 1877 and thomas 1876 .

Next step is ordering the certificate. That is why i posted on here to see if there was a link between the other hoare familys that were living in aston at that time.

Regards
Tracey

using 'richard' as place of residence and 'cornwall' as place of birth

is this him ?

HOARE THOMAS 1855 56 Aston Warwickshire

is 'Cornwall' all it says for place of birth ? I do not subscribe to see details


Bodenham is in Herefordshire

I tried the search using 'bodmin' which is in Cornwall as the place of birth but that was not it


I suggest that you find the information you have and then come back with it so you can say what it is and where it came from rather than 'I think I have', seriously, we are all happy to help, but this does not work


British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Thomas Hoare
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Age at enlistment: 40
Residence: 72 Richard St, Birmingham
Document Year: 1917
Regimental Number: 187033
Regiment Name: Depot
Number of images: 33

wife and children are listed on page 2, I don't imagine it has information about parents

okay well sorry you just aren't giving us enough information for anyone to help

if Thomas Sr is on the 1911 then you know where, you know what his year of birth was ... we don't so we have no way to help search for him so there we go

details for thomas regarding birth is on 1911 cenus stating cornwall think i have it on something else stating bodenham.

Tracey if you could answer the questions it would be interesting

where are they before Selina's birth in 1887 ?
does her birth certificate name Thomas Hoare as father ?
do you have Thomas's marriage certificate to Beesley ?
if so what does it say about his father ?
have you found Thomas's birth and do you have the certificate ?

when you say Thomas Sr 'may have been working away' in 1901 and you say he was working as a gas maker ( what is that ? ) where is that information from ? can you tell us where Thomas Sr was in any census at all ?

Hi

Details for thomas living with Eliza again by son thomas in richard street. He may have been working away in the 1901 census and was working as a gas maker. Daughter selina was still living with them in 1911.

and can you tell us where the info that his father was Thomas from Cornwall comes from please ?

we understand you have researched but we don't know what you have found and where you found it :-)

it doesn't help others to help, you see, just to know that you have something ... we have to know what it is !

your Thomas simply does not seem to have existence before his marriage ... have you found traces ? likewise there is no trace of Selina in 1891, that I can see

if you have his marriage certificate what occupation does it give for his father Thomas ?