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ZZzzz
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8 May 2010 14:35 |
With regard to Emma Chamberlain, on her birth cert she was born 1865 the daughter of John Thomas Chamberlain and Ann Chamberlain nee Durance. Her Mother died 1870, there is John Chamberlain 1871 Widower, the others with him match the little info I have and the same goes with 1881 census, Emma is on that one, if anyone can find her I shall be very grateful. Regards Sue.
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MargaretM
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8 May 2010 14:45 |
It looks like her in 1871 as Emma Chamberlin, 5 , born Upleatham which is very close to Guiseborough. She's a niece in the home of Robert Chamberlin & Hannah in Navenby, Lincolnshire.
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ZZzzz
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8 May 2010 14:54 |
Thank you Margaret , I sure you have found the right one :<)))
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ZZzzz
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22 May 2010 20:49 |
Alas this is not mine, I have a marriage cert which is looking more likely (if that is possible) Emma is 21 in 1886 and Moorgate is where she is living, her Father is Thomas and he is in the navy, I haven't found her birth so do not know who her Mother is, is there anyway I can find out more about her does anyone know please?
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alviegal
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22 May 2010 21:17 |
For reference, is this your Emma in 1881?
1881 census transcription details for: 46, Parliament St, Habergham Eaves National Archive Reference: RG number: RG11 Piece: 4150 Folio: 136 Page: 11 Reg. District: Burnley Sub District: Burnley Parish: Habergham Eaves Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: 46, Parliament St, Habergham Eaves County: Lancashire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born CHAMBERLAIN, Mary Head Single F 23 1858 Housekeeper Skirton Lincolnshire CHAMBERLAIN, Fanny Sister Single F 19 1862 Cotton Winder Marske Yorkshire CHAMBERLAIN, Thomas D Brother Single M 17 1864 Cotton Piece Sorter Upleatham Yorkshire CHAMBERLAIN, Emma Sister Single F 15 1866 Cotton Winder Upleatham Yorkshire CHAMBERLAIN, John Wm Brother Single M 12 1869 Scholar Upleatham Yorkshire FRANK, Eliza Visitor Single F 30 1851 (Sch) Governess Pickering Yorkshire
1861 census transcription details for: Ox Close, Marske National Archive Reference: RG number: RG09 Piece: 3652 Folio: 6 Page: 12 Reg. District: Guisbrough Sub District: 2 Marske Parish: Marske Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: Ox Close, Marske County: Yorkshire (North Riding) Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born CHAMBERLAIN, John J Head Married M 31 1830 Agricultural Labourer Bourne Lancashire CHAMBERLAIN, Ann Wife Married F 23 1838 Kirton Lancashire CHAMBERLAIN, Jane Daughter F 4 1857 Kirton Lancashire CHAMBERLAIN, Mary Daughter F 3 1858 Kirton Lancashire CHAMBERLAIN, Elizabeth A Daughter F 1 1860 ... Yorkshire CHAMBERLAIN, Edward Brother Unmarried M 19 1842 Iron Miner Bourne Lincolnshire
1871 census transcription details for: Upleatham, South Side, Upleatham National Archive Reference: RG number: RG10 Piece: 4853 Folio: 152 Page: 5 Reg. District: Guisborough Sub District: Marske by the Sea Parish: Upleatham Enum. District: 12 Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: Upleatham, South Side, Upleatham County: Yorkshire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born CHAMBERLAIN, John Head M 41 1830 Lincolnshire ag lab CHAMBERLAIN, Mary Daughter F 13 1858 Lincolnshire CHAMBERLAIN, Thomas Son M 7 1864 Yorkshire CHAMBERLAIN, John W Son M 2 1869 Yorkshire
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TheLadyInRed
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22 May 2010 21:18 |
Susan, posting this one purely because you say her father was in the Navy and she was born at sea. On census return Thomas is shown as being a "Chelsea Pensioner" although only 47 years old:
1871 England Census about Emma J Chamberlain Name: Emma J Chamberlain Age: 6 Estimated birth year: abt 1865 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Thomas Mother's Name: Mary Gender: Female Where born: At Sea Civil parish: Leighton Buzzard Town: Leighton Buzzard County/Island: Bedfordshire Country: England Registration district: Leighton Buzzard Sub-registration district: Leighton Buzzard ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household schedule number: 120 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Chamberlain 47 Mary Chamberlain 38 Emma J Chamberlain 6 Mary Chamberlain 4 Alice Chamberlain 2 John Brandom 76
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Ozibird
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22 May 2010 21:32 |
Susan, we're just guessing here. We need to work back. Have you found her in any census, married or unmarried?
Is this her marriage? Marriages Mar 1886 BIDDLES Henry Saddleworth 9a 303 Chamberlain Emma Saddleworth 9a 303
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alviegal
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22 May 2010 21:32 |
Here is Fanny, also missing from 1871. Why would you think the Emma found by Margaret was wrong? Why would you think John Thomas was in the navy? These are staying a few doors down from a William Chamberlain.
1871 census transcription details for: School Lane, Harmston National Archive Reference: RG number: RG10 Piece: 3364 Folio: 51 Page: 9 Reg. District: Lincoln Sub District: South West Parish: Harmston Enum. District: 3E Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: School Lane, Harmston County: Lincolnshire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born CHAMBERLAIN, Edward Head M 29 1842 Lincolnshire coal merchant/ farmer CHAMBERLAIN, Mary Wife F 27 1844 Cornwall CHAMBERLAIN, Mary Jane Elizabeth Daughter F 6 1865 Lincolnshire CHAMBERLAIN, Albert Edward Son M 4 1867 Lincolnshire CHAMBERLAIN, Beatrice Louise Fanny Daughter F 1 1870 Lincolnshire CHAMBERLAIN, Fanny Niece F 9 1862 Upleatham, Yorkshire WALKER, Eliza Servant F 19 1852 Lincolnshire
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ZZzzz
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22 May 2010 21:46 |
Ozi, yes that is her marriage thank you and her father is Thomas on that cert which is why i think that the one margaret found is the wrong one, i am sorry but i think i jumped to the wrong conclusion in my asking post but it did all seem to fit at the time :<((
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alviegal
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22 May 2010 21:48 |
1871 census transcription details for: The Rectory, Navenby National Archive Reference: RG number: RG10 Piece: 3364 Folio: 22 Page: 35 Reg. District: Lincoln Sub District: South West Parish: Navenby Enum. District: 1 Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: The Rectory, Navenby County: Lincolnshire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation, Where Born CHAMBERLIN, Robert Head M 32 1839 coal merchant b Bourne Lincolnshire CHAMBERLIN, Hannah Wife F 29 1842 Lincolnshire CHAMBERLIN, Jane Daughter F 7 1864 Nottinghamshire CHAMBERLIN, Emma Niece F 5 1866 Yorkshire
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alviegal
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22 May 2010 21:58 |
This appears to be the brothers in 1841. John, Robert and William.
1841 England Census about Robert Chamberlar Name: Robert Chamberlar Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1837 Gender: Male Where born: Lincolnshire, England Civil parish: Bourne Hundred: Aveland County/Island: Lincolnshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: Bourne Sub-registration district: Bourne Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Thos Chamberlar 35 ag lab Ann Chamberlar 35 Eliza Chamberlar 12 John Chamberlar 11 Robert Chamberlar 4 William Chamberlar 2
1851 for the family?
1851 England Census about John Chamberlain Name: John Chamberlain Age: 21 Estimated birth year: abt 1830 Relation: Son Father's Name: Thomas Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Bourn, Lincolnshire, England Civil parish: Extraparochial Ecclesiastical parish: Pelhams Lands County/Island: Lincolnshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image Registration district: Boston Sub-registration district: Boston ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 7 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Chamberlain 45 Bowes, Lincolnshire, England, Agrl Labourer Elizabeth Chamberlain 45 Burton Coggles Lincolnshire John Chamberlain 21 William Chamberlain 11 Edward Chamberlain 9 Fanny Chamberlain 7
I know the mother's names are different but if you look at Eliza's birth.
ELIZA CHAMBERLAIN Pedigree Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 23 OCT 1828 Bourne, Lincoln, England Death: Burial: Parents: Father: THOMAS CHAMBERLAIN Family Mother: ELIZABETH
Perhaps the mother was Elizabeth Ann?
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Ozibird
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22 May 2010 22:30 |
alviegal, how do they connect to the Henry Biddles marriage?
Susan, what was Henry's occupation on the cert?
Ozi
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Mary
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23 May 2010 15:18 |
A tree on Ancestry says Emma Chamberlain born to Henry 1827 Epworth Lincs and Eliza 1831 Emma born 1865-1933 born Nottingham. She married Henry Biddles and had Maria Biddles 1889 in Saddleworth Yorks.
1891 Census Delph Saddleworth D18 7 Street addres MOORCROFT. Samual Symes Lodger age 44 born Dorset. Emma Symes Lodger 1865 born Nottingham Sarah A Chamberlain born Greenfield Yorks age 6 Maria Biddles Lodger age 1 transcribed as Beddoes
Also at same address Elijah Chamberlain1875 Lilly 14 Elizabeth 11.
Do you think this could be your Emma?
Maryb
Another tree and census confirm her parents were William Chamberlain 1843 Bangor Flintshire and Ann born Sheffield @ 1838.
1881 Grove Mill Spotland Whitworth D14 33 William born Bangor Ann born bradfield Emma 1866 gainsborough Lincs Tom 1867 Joseph 1870 Settle Yorks Lucy Ann 1877 Elizabeth 1880 denton lancs
1891 Emma Symes is now married to Samuel Parry Symes,lodging at her mums house Ann her mum married again to Samuel Dickinson
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ZZzzz
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23 May 2010 16:21 |
Mary The Emma you found did marry Henry Biddles1886 saddleworth Henry is 23 and it looks like Navy in rank or profession, his Father is william hubbard a farmer. Emma is 21, her Father is Thomas Chamberlain and he is what looks like Navy too. Henry and Emmas daughter Maria is witness to Ellison Pickles and Sarah Chamberlain marriage, Ellison is Brother to my Grandfather and Sarah is Emmas illegitimate daughter. Gosh I hope this makes sense, cos it is doing me head in :<@
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Mary
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23 May 2010 16:44 |
Can't get my head round the fact the Sarah Chamberlain and Maria Biddles her daughters being with Emma now Symes in 1891,lodging with her mum (Ann Dickenson)formerley Chamberlain and siblings,and with her mum and dad same siblings in 1881.
Was William actually Thomas.
Maryb
I have just been checking a tree about Samuel Symes who Emma was with in 1891/1901. He married in 1875 a Harriet Lashley born 1854 her dad was George and his occupation was NAVVY,could this be the occupation of those you thought were in the NAVY.
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Mary
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23 May 2010 19:24 |
So this is John Thomas Chamberlain who married Ann Durance in 1855 Boston Lincs.
1861 Marske yorkshire district 1 image 12 Thomas born @ 1831 Bourne Lincs Agricutural Labourer Ann 1838 Kirton Jane 4 Mary3 Elizabeth A 1 Edward Chamberlain brother born Bourne Lincs age 19 William Chamberlain 21 John Durance Railway Worker age 21 born Kirton.
Maryb
1841 Kirton Lincs Swineshead D 12 6 William Durance 1808 agricultural labourer. born Lincs Mary 1803 Elizabeth 1831 Sarah 1833 Ann 1838 married John Thomas Chamberlain John 1840 married Harriet Dickenson born 1847.
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Mary
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23 May 2010 19:48 |
Ann Chamberlain now Dickenson formerly Durance 1901 Oldham Above town D32 26 864 Ripponden road Ann Dickinson born 1837 Sheffield widow Lucy A Chamberlain age 24 born Benniton Lincs Elizabeth 21 born Denton Lancs.
Maryb
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Mary
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23 May 2010 20:09 |
1851 Pelhams Land Boston Lincs D11 3 Thoams Chamberlain 1806 A/Labourer Elizabeth 1806 John 1831 married Ann Durance William 1840 is this who is with Ann (Durance) on 1881 census??? Edward 1842 Fanny 1844.
This is maybe John Thomas married Ann and in 1881 William his brother is living with Ann in Spotalnd.
What do you think of this theory?
Maryb
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ZZzzz
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23 May 2010 20:14 |
Mary, yes it is Navvy (needed my magnifying glass to read it) which makes sense because if it were Navy then it would have rank and number there as well, i shall be taking a bit of time now to check out what you have found because i'm thinking i may have got some of it wrong, a big thank you though for all the help from you all.
Sue.
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Mary
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24 May 2010 11:06 |
I prosume this is John in 1871 Upleathem Yorks John Chamberlain 1830 Bourne Lincs Widow??? maybe they just split up. Mary 13 1858 Kirton Thomas 7 Upleathem. John W 2 Upleathem
So it looks like the same family but where are the rest of them,is this the record you have?
Maryb
It's probably me who's got it wrong,as how could Thomas Durance Chamberlain 1846 be with sister Mary 1858 in 1881 at Habergham Eaves and Tom 1867 Lancashire with William Chamberlain and Ann in 1881 at Spotland Lancs.
I know Emma and Maria Biddles with Ann (Dickenson) in 1891 in Saddleworth and it just says lodgers,so could William and Ann be Emma's Aunt and Uncle or just cousins. Meaning William and Ann had a Emma 1866 in Gainsborough,and John Thomas and Ann also had Emma 1865/6.
You said it was doing your head in,well mine too now.
Have you got death certificate for Ann Chamberlain who died 1870 in Guisborough.
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