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Paul
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11 Apr 2009 16:31 |
Ernest William Tait Taylor was born on Christmas Day 1868 in South Norwood, Croydon, Surrey. His unmarried parents were Robert Thomas Tait and Annie Taylor, hence the Tait Taylor in his name.
I found him on the 1891 census living with his wife Kate Amelia at his in-laws house (Bravery family) in Chelsea and recorded on the Census as Ernest Taylor.
There is a possible entry for him on the 1881 census listed as Ernest W Tait as a boarder at a school in Clifton, Gloucestershire but I am not convinced it is him (age is out by 1 year). In 1901 his wife and 5 children are at home in Chelsea, but he is not there. I cannot find him anywhere. I have found him on the 1911 census, married to his 2nd wife (first wife died 1903)and now listed as Ernest Tait.
To recap Not found on 1871 census Possible entry found on 1881 census but not certain Found on 1891 census Not found on 1901 census Found on 1911 census
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Grumpy
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11 Apr 2009 16:39 |
his birth index
Births Mar 1869 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TAIT Ernest William T Croydon 2a 209
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LD
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11 Apr 2009 16:46 |
I have found a Ernest William TATE, born Croydon, a sugar refiner on the 1901. I assume it is the Tate of Tate & Lyle. Could it be yours ??
Name: Ernest William Tate Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mildred M Gender: Male Where born: Croydon, Surrey, England Civil Parish: Garston Ecclesiastical parish: Aigburth St Anne County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: Wavertree ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 83 Household Members: Name Age Ernest William Tate 34 Mildred M Tate 31 Mildred C Tate 6 Ivan Tate 4 Sarah J Saunders 36 Sarah A Cooper 27 Annie Price 37 Mary Sibson 36 Selina Sherratt 18 View Original Record
View original image Vie
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Grumpy
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11 Apr 2009 16:50 |
NOT YOUR TAIT/TAYLOR
Births Mar 1867 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tate Ernest William Croydon 2a 182
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Paul
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11 Apr 2009 17:04 |
Not a Tate from Tate and Lyle fame ! His occupation from 1911 until late in life was a domestic chauffeur.
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Nickydownsouth
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11 Apr 2009 19:27 |
Have tried all combinations of Ernest william Tait/Taylor and could not find him in either 1871 or 1901, have you found either of his parents on the 1871?
Have taken a look at the 1881 and think the one you`ve found in Gloucestershire is probably him, that spelling of Tait is quite unusual, and i would ignore the fact that his age is a year out, that is very common on census returns.
Nicky
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Paul
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11 Apr 2009 20:52 |
The only info I have on the parents are from his birth certificate. Robert Taits profession is given as merchant. Of course Annie Taylor is a very common name - she was the informant of the birth and I doubt South Norwood was where she lived. Those missing censuses may give a clue to where the parents came from!
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alviegal
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11 Apr 2009 21:44 |
I don't suppose this could be his father? He and his brother are army contractors. Everyone else born Limerick, Ireland.
1871 England Census about Robert T Tait Name: Robert T Tait Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839 Relation: Brother Gender: Male Where born: Lewick, Shetland, Scotland Civil Parish: Putney Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image Registration district: Wandsworth Sub registration district: Putney ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 131 Household Members: Name Age Peter Tait 42 b Lerwick, Shetlands Rose Tait 36 Elizabeth Tait 16 Magaret Tait 14 Rose Tait 13 Mary T Tait 12 Peter Tait 10 Isabella Tait 8 William Tait 7 Evelyn R Tait 5 Allice E Tait 3 Robert T Tait 32 Mary Eyan 29 View Original Record
View original image
ROBERT THOMAS TAIT Pedigree Male Event(s): Birth: 11 DEC 1838 Christening: 12 FEB 1839 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland Death: Burial: Parents: Father: THOMAS TAIT Family Mother: MARGARET LINKLATER
Children born to this couple.
1. ISABELLA CATHARINE TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 15 MAR 1836 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 2. JOHN TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 12 JUN 1818 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 3. MARGARET TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 23 JUL 1822 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 4. MARGARET TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 01 SEP 1830 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 5. JAMES TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 15 AUG 1824 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 6. JEAN TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 11 MAY 1826 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 7. PETER TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 09 SEP 1828 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 8. ROBERT THOMAS TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 12 FEB 1839 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland 9. BARBARA TAIT - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 25 JUN 1820 Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland
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Paul
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13 Apr 2009 22:13 |
There is a good chance that this 1871 census entry could be of the Robert Thomas Tait in question. There were few Taits in london around this time. As to where Annie Taylor and the 2 year old son Ernest were in 1871 is another question.. paul
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Paul
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14 Apr 2009 13:17 |
I have just received through the post the marriage certificate of Ernest William Tait Taylor to Kate Amelia Bravery in Oct 1889. He calls himself Ernest William Taylor on the certificate (though of course I know he called himself Tait Taylor) with an occupation of draper. Also he records father father as Robert Thomas Taylor(deceased) occupation draper. I know as mentioned on a previous post his father to be Robert Thomas Tait. A previous post mentions a Tait with occupation of Army Contractor on 1871 census. Did Army contractors deal with cloth?. I need to find Robert Thomas Tait on 1881 census. Also is the (deceased) bit true? Experience has shown that the father is not always deceased! So: 1) Need to find a Robert Thomas Tait on 1881 census that fits the one born in the Shetlands with possible occupation of draper. 2) Also need to see if there is a death recorded before Oct 1889
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alviegal
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14 Apr 2009 21:40 |
Possible death for Robert.
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983 about Robert Thomas Tait Name: Robert Thomas Tait Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Year of Registration: 1903 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at Death: 65 District: Christchurch (1837-1925) County: Hampshire Volume: 2b Page: 405
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Paul
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15 Apr 2009 15:01 |
I have just discovered that Sir Peter Tait and his brother Robert Thomas Tait from Lerwick were famous in their time - have a look at http://www.civilwarhistorian.com/pdf/Tait%204-5.pdf
they made army uniforms for british soldiers in the Crimean War and supplied uniforms to the Confederate states in the American Civil War. Peter Tait died in Russia according to the writeup. Robert and his brother James made buttons and leather goods in a factory in the strand. The buttons were marked on the back " RT TAIT &CO/ESSEX STREET STRAND" . The RT I assume standing for Robert Thomas. It also explains that they could have quite possibly sent Ernest off to a boarding school for his education - hence 1881 census entry.
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alviegal
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15 Apr 2009 21:17 |
Well, well, well, how interesting! The boys from Lerwick certainly did well for themselves.
1891 for Robert T?
1891 census transcription details for: Trewen, Spring Grove, Heston, Spring Grove National Archive Reference: RG number: RG12 Piece: 1024 Folio: 141 Page: 30 Reg. District: Brentford Sub District: Isleworth Enum. District: 13 Ecclesiastical District: St Marys Parish: Heston City/Municipal Borough: Address: Trewen, Spring Grove, Heston, Spring Grove County: Middlesex Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation, Disability Where Born DANBERRY, Fred S Head Married M 48 1843 Major Retired (should be Daubeney not Danberry) Bath Somersetshire DANBERRY, Blanche Macfarlan Wife Married F 35 1856 Farnham Surrey TAIT, Robert J Visitor Widower M 52 1839 Living On Own Means (image reads Robert T) Lerwick Shetland TAIT, Blanche E Visitor Single F 17 1874 France TAIT, Elizabeth Visitor Single F 15 1876 London TAIT, Isabel M Visitor Single F 13 1878 Servant Norwood Surrey BAGGOTT, Eliza Servant Single F 21 1870 Servant Isleworth Middlesex SAUNDERS, Eliza Servant Single F 21 1870 London
Not sure about this 1851 one.
1851 Scotland Census about Thomas Tait Name: Thomas Tait Age: 58 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1793 Relationship: Head Spouse's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Whiteness, Ork & Zet Parish Number: 5 Civil Parish: Lerwick County: Shetland Address: 2 Albert Court Occupation: Draper & Grocer ED: 2 Page: 20 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 94 Line: 5 Roll: CSSCT1851_2 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Tait 58 Margaret Tait 56 Jane Tait 24 Elizabeth Tait 18 Robert Tait 12 Robina Tait 38 house servant
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alviegal
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15 Apr 2009 21:44 |
There are a few Daubeney trees on ancestry. One has a Frederick C Daubeney marrying an Alice Tait and having a son Robert Tait Daubeney. This is perhaps going off on a bit of a tangent from your original question but maybe it is relevant down the line.
Liz
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Paul
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15 Apr 2009 23:25 |
There is a Robert Thomas Tait on the 1901 census - occupation army clothier living in Bromley, Kent
TAIT, Robert Thomas Head Married M 62 1839 Army Clothier Scotland TAIT, Margaret Wife Married F 44 1857 Ireland
This could be the Robert Thomas Tait who died aged 65 in Christchurch, Hampshire 1903. I may get the death certificate for this one and then get a copy of a will.
The very interesting thing here is that the wife of Ernest William Tait Taylor died in early 1903. When he marries his second wife Rose Eleanor Reed (supposedly around 1903 but I have yet to find a records entry) he drops the Taylor and is now called Ernest William Tait. The 1911 census entry says they have been married 8 years which would have meant a marriage soon after the death of his first wife. Did he have a better understanding of who his real father was, was he left something in a will ? Where did he marry Rose Eleanor Reed (nothing to do with the marriage of a Rose Eleanor Reed in Fulham 1904 - I have checked).
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Paul
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16 Apr 2009 16:30 |
Dear contributors to my thread. I have had a major breakthrough which has answered all the outstanding questions. I came across a book called "Peter Tait" written by John Waite which has a chapter devoted to Robert Thomas Tait (brother of Sir Peter Tait) and his illicit liaisons. Ernest William Tait has 3 pages! His mother Annie Taylor (who never married) adopted the surname Vigil as a result of earlier giving birth to a son Charles, whose father's name was Vigil. Ernest William and Charles are half brothers.
So in 1871 and 1881 Ernest appears as Ernest Vigil, born South Norwood !
In 1901 Ernest William Taylor was not at home in Chelsea as he was fighting in the Boer War. I am going to be sent copies of letters he sent home from the Boer War.
So Ernest William was born a Tait Taylor, brought up as a Vigil, married his first wife as a Taylor and his second wife as a Tait. Confusing eh!
Robert Thomas Tait did die in 1903 Christchurch Hampshire, penniless and buried in a commoners grave.
Thanks again to all contributors
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Nickydownsouth
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16 Apr 2009 16:39 |
Wow Paul....!!!
What a lot of information you`ve managed to find since first posting your thread.......its great when you get a breakthrough and it all falls in to place....
for information only for all contributors......
Annie VIGIL Head W Female 37 Burford, Oxford, England Private Means Chas VIGIL Son U Male 20 Symonsroad, Middlesex, England Clerk Ernest VIGIL Son Male 12 South Norwood, Surrey, England (Mrs) MURRY Visitor W Female 30 Plymouth, Devon, England Private Means
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 50 Rosaville Rd Census Place London, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341015 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0068 / 81 Page Number 24
Nicky
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MarieCeleste
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3 Nov 2015 18:57 |
Just nudging this up with a link to my own thread which does connect in a way:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1236400?jump=1236400
Where alviegal says "There are a few Daubeney trees on ancestry. One has a Frederick C Daubeney marrying an Alice Tait and having a son Robert Tait Daubeney. This is perhaps going off on a bit of a tangent from your original question but maybe it is relevant down the line."
That would have been my tree at the time and I'm now pretty sure that my Robert Tait Daubeney was the son of Frederick Sykes Daubeney and Isabelle Alice Hughes and is possibly named for Fred S's brother-in-law Robert Thomas Tait.
I'll pm Paul in case he's interested.
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mgnv
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4 Nov 2015 02:35 |
1841 Census Piece: SCT1841/5 Place: Lerwick -Shetland Enumeration District: 3 Civil Parish: Lerwick Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Lerwick Folio: 5 Page: 11 Address: G. Taits Close Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks TAIT Thomas M 49 Net Manufacturer Shetland TAIT Margaret F 47 Shetland TAIT Barbara F 20 Shetland TAIT Jane F 15 Shetland TAIT Peter M 13 Shetland TAIT Margaret F 11 Shetland TAIT Elizabeth F 9 Shetland TAIT Isabella F 6 Shetland TAIT Robert M 2 Shetland Page: 5/12 SMITH Robina F 25 Shetland SMITH Ann F 9 Shetland SMITH Robina F 2m Shetland ROBERTSON Jessy F 15 Female Servant Shetland
b 11/12/1838 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQJ-S24
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY7S-XJV Event Date 11 Sep 1817 Event Place Lerwick,Shetland,Scotland
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY73-YJ5 Event Date 09 Sep 1817 Event Place Tingwall,Shetland,Scotland
[Not 2 marrs - I presume the first record is the marr, and the 2nd is just a calling of banns - but I can't say without seeing the entries from SP]
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Chris Ho :)
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4 Nov 2015 07:00 |
http://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I177026&tree=ID1
(above from google, Tait Family)
Chris :)
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