General Chat

see below..

A little while back I posted about some building work I had done. In addition to what was agreed they had to replace a small piece of floor upstairs. The bill I received for this was almost £190. I asked for an itemised bill and this is what came this morning. Timber £15.20 Ply £36 Screws £16.50 Nails £5.50 Skip £33 Labour £70 - these two prices include labour for removal and relaying floor. This piece of floor was around 2foot 6 by 4 foot at its largest point on my landing, above the chimney there were removing. The timber was to replace the joists in the gap left by the chimney. Can anybody give me an opinion on this price please

He has had the cheek to say these are the prices charged by his suppliers. I feel we have been charged for whole boxes of screws and whole pieces of timber/ply not just the small amounts used.

diane my hubby gets his screws direct and they are £2 abox off 200

They cam to take out the chimney. After about an hour they "discovered" that upstairs above it what looked like the old chimney that had been removed before had part of the hearth still under the carpet. At no time was this ever checked prior to starting the work. So really about 2 hours was used in putting the new joists, in the space caused by taking the chimney out and cutting a piece of plywood to replace the floorboards, and removal of this fairly small slab of concret. My argument is also that any work being carried out within the chimneys structure should have been foreseen and included in my quote. The nails were used for nailing the joists to the existing ones and the screws for screwing down the plywood Also when the concrete was found I expressed concern as I had no extra money for this and at no time was a cost given to me, because of this I expected a nominal amount just for the extra materials. Also no skip was ever outside my house!

Of course is is far too expensive. The whole job probably added £20 or £30 to their true costs. There is, sadly, very little you can do about it. In the building trade it is common practice to quote at break even to get the work and then to encourage the customer to add extras that were not included in the original estimate without getting a firm price first. This gives them carte blanche to charge what they like. If the customer doesn't add work then extras can easily be found or even created. If they haev a reputation to defend they may be persuaded to meet you half way. If they are members of a Trade Organisation they might help but don't bet on it.

The con here seems to be the cost of the skip. did they not quote for a skip on the original job? How do they justify a skip for such a small addition? Bob

Hi Diane, I work for one of the large builders merchants, and whilst I cant comment on what he has charged, cos dont know what he paid - the prices do seem realistic. Screws can be very expensive - especially Brass Zinc Plated (the gold ones) - I had always scrounged mine off Dad before and I was astonished at how much they actually cost. So if he has got his supplies from the likes of my company he will have paid more than 'joe public' would do with Screwfix. Regards the skip cost - maybe he paid to 'tip' it at the local dump - I believe tradesmen have to pay for that?? Anne in Kent

The thing that has got me is that they were already taking the chimney out, the small amount of rubble they removed upstairs was just taken away with that. It's the way they have gone about it that has really got to me. No discussion at all. This was after getting over £12,000 off me for an extension in the summer. We had just £300 owing on the whole job (including the chimney removal), this was left until the completion of the chimney removal. We have paid this. All in all, to me they have had a few hundred pounds of mine for 6 months, in between finishing the extension and starting the chimney.

Thats what I would have thought. I just think as they had had most of the money already they were looking for a bit extra. My daughter is getting some prices for me tomorrow so I can see whats what for this area. Then I will write back and say I think it's still extreme and I am obviously being charged for their oversight. I did question this in my letter asking for a detailed bill but nothing was answered. Thing is I'm getting some more on the mortgage to get my loft wall done they had quoted me £1000 for that. Well they won't be getting the job now. So they have shot themselves in the foot by treating me so shabbily.

Thats the thing, when he said about this so called problem he never said anything about more money. I said I had nothing extra for anything and he never once said well it's going to cost you £x more. Very poor way of working.

Diane i think you was ripped off because as i understood your message if they were removing your chimeny stack this sort of work should of been encluded in there price in the first place and if it was someone else just doing that part of the job i would hardly think they would of needed a skip to clear away the rubbish caused by removing the floor area. From builder of some 45 years

The upstairs chimney had been removed many years ago and the third bedroom made into a bathroom/bedroom and passageway. The piece of hearth they found was in the passageway so very small and there were floorboards underneath it when it was removed so there was no additional work there. All they did extra to actually removing the downstairs chimney was remove that piece of hearth and replace those boards with plywood. The joists he replaced were within the structure of the removed chimney. I've definately been ripped off, but I haven't paid that bill yet.

Diane, What does your original quote say? You said "In addition to what was agreed". I don't see why this is an addition. This should be included as part of the original quote. Sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one on you and make you think it's extra work. They need to suck up the expenses on this one. Crista

Diane my advice is dont pay it get an independent estimate for the work they carried out all the best ronnie

Thanks for all your replies. Think I will get another person to give me a costing. My daughter works in the council repairs so she should be able to do that for me.

Diana, there are a couple of things here: Did he give you a quote for the work, or was it an estimate. If it was a quote, its a fixed price incl. all unforseen stuff. If it was an estimate, you will be liable for unforeseeables. However, if the additional cost exceeds say, 10% of the original contract value, he has to get your prior approval to do the work. If he didn't, its his problem. A contract doesn't legally have to be in writing, its just safer for you if it is. As he has given you a break down of his invoice, you can query the items, such as skip. If he can justify the cost, you will have to pay. There are regulations concerning waste now, and he will be liable for the so called Landfill Tax for disposing of building waste, so I think that 33 quid for that is OK. The screws are expensive, but as has been said before, he will charge for a whole box. The only other option would have been for you to buy the screws PRIOR to him starting work. Ask a couple of builders merchants how much they charge, allow him a profit of 5% and then its up to you to confront him with the costs. For your additional works, ask him if he will take the chimney works into consideration for a QUOTE for these additional works. It may be you will get a better price. Make sure its a quote though. Tell him you expect him to make a thorough survey and won't entertain additional costs after the work. Hope this helps - I'm a construction contracts manager, so I've got a bit of an idea whats involved. All above advise though is only my opinion! (Have to say that for legal reasons) D

Hi This was a quote taken out early last year. The bulk of the work (extension) was completed in June. The chimney was delayed until the boiler had been removed. When we called and asked them to come and complete the job we waited over 3 months for them to come and had a days notice, just 2 weeks before christmas. When they came to do the quote they looked around all over so knew exactly what was needed. So as others have said they should have built in the quote any eventualities. They charged us over £12,500 altogether, they had all the money apart from £300, from completion of the extension in June. Judging by what they are trying to charge for this "extra" work removal of the downstairs chimney must have been a lot more than £300, so in effect they had part of our money for 6 months. At no time from when this discovery of the hearth upstairs was made, was a sum of money discussed or given to us. Although he has sent this so called bill he still hasn't answered the questions I asked in my letter before Christmas. The quote I had last year was for all building works for the extension and removal of chimney. As I said there was no skip it was just taken away with the chimney rubble. The concrete removed was no larger than 2 concrete slabs at the very most.