General Chat

Does anyone know if it is lawful when say a listed building or an old building isn't suitable to provide a lift or ramp for wheelchairs etc to exclude people with disability?

When I was looking for a venue for my 60th birthday last year, there was a local hotel I had used a few years ago before I had mobility problems and it had a large flight of stairs. The public bar which was separate was at ground level, but the restaurant and hotel rooms are on the first floor.

When I went to book, daughter made me ask if they had a lift as I could not go up the stairs and was told sorry, nope, no lift!!! The hotel has been there for years.

It maybe the building is not suitable designed to install a lift but is that legal then as this excludes not just me who can't climb stairs but wheelchair users too?

I suddenly realised there were a couple of other places, one where the lift has been out of order since last Sept and still is. The restaurant again is on the first floor so that was no good.

We eventually went to a hotel where they had put a ramp downstairs as the restaurant was on a split level but the rooms are upstairs and no lift there either.

I also noticed that several coffee shops on the hill have 3 steps into the shop and no other entrance excluding me from there too.(and wheelchairs)

It's not until you have a mobility problem, you realise what you are up against!

It maybe that if your building is listed and cannot be changed, then the business cannot be say fined for excluding sections of the public??

Anybody else have a problem in their local area if you are a wheelchair user or use a stick and cannot climb?

Florence in the hebrides

That is an interesting question, and the answers will be interesting too. Thank you for putting it up.

I think all new buildings have to have disabled access by law I would think others had to change or provide some help, like the ramp.
Our village pharmacy is on a corner with two concrete steps up. I’ve not noticed but presume they still have the bell outside where people can ring for help.

Yes newer buildings here all have disabled access, but a lot of the buildings in town are very old and some are listed. One of the coffee shops is on a street on a hill and has steps up to it, but its an old building. Infact upstairs in the coffee shop is a lovely art gallery/gift shop but only accessible by stairs!

When you are able and fully mobile, one doesn't give it a second thought really. It's only when you develop a mobility problem that you suddenly notice all the problems with stairs etc.

I'm still waiting for results of tests but I have begun to realise that my paralysis in my left leg is not going away , that's me being realistic, but when I do get the chance to get to town maybe with a friend in a car, we shall have to check in advance say for lunch somewhere to check out the access/lift facilities. Otherwise it would be disappointing to get somewhere automatically thinking they have a lift or ramp only to discover I couldn't access the venue.

Changed days!

Florence in the hebrides

Florence, the ‘main’ function hall of our cathedral has a chair-lift. I have been there when a person has transferred from wheelchair to chairlift and when someone carried the folded wheelchair up the old stairs so that the person could transfer from chair to wheelchair.

Our Cathedral which has a just few steps between nave to the Chapel of Nine Altars bought a contraption that seemed to be what I call a wheelchair with rolling wheels - although I appreciate that using it up a whole flight of stairs would be an arduous, almost impossible, task. Edit: the contraption is called a stairclimber, Florence.

You’ll appreciate that these buildings are centuries old (1093 for the church itself).

Finally, does the hotel have a staff lift to transfer laundry, food etc, rather than back stairs?

Oh well now Joy thats something i shall investigate as never thought of that. Thankyou for that suggestion.

I do rather think they probably have some kind of service lift for laundry but all meals are served upstairs on 1st floor where restaurant and bedrooms are.
The public bar on street level is separate from upstairs although in same building but different entrance and they dont serve food in there.

One of many interesting things on Google;

Wheelchair Access into Listed Buildings. The Equality Act 2010 requires all buildings to have disabled access. There is a misconception that Listed Buildings are exempt from requiring wheelchair access, due to the historic nature of the building.

Some years ago we went to the Royal Albert hall for the proms

Tickets and an overnight hotel had been a combined Christmas and birthday present from our granddaughter

Grandaughter made it very clear to hotel that grandad had mobility problems so had to be a downstairs room and that was provided

What the hotel didn’t say was the dining room was below ground level by a steep staircase which no way could hubby negotiate

I enquired at reception in the morning about getting him some breakfast to be told curtly they don’t do room service

Eventually I went down and had breakfast and took him back some buffet items ,even then I was confronted on removing food from the area

I was well he has paid for breakfast that he can’t get access too so I will take some to him and return used plates

They weren’t happy about it though

My daughter is an architect and a large part of her work, by preference and love, involves renovating older buildings. Disabled access is also necessary by law over here.

She's often talked about the problem of adding access to buildings over 100 years old. It is often almost impossible to work out how to do it.

You can't turn a staircase into a lift. You could add a stairlift, although that needs a certain width and could take up over half of that, making the stairs difficult to navigate for the mobile. Someone would have to carry the wheelchair up.

I have used wheelchair stairlifts in train stations, where there is a flat platform, the chair is wheeled on and a bar dropped down behind you so the chair can't slip off. It's an interesting ride. It certainly wouldn't add to the "decor" or "atmosphere" of the main staircase in a hotel of hundreds' year old mansion. There also has to be a staff person to operate it.

One building that my daughter worked on recently had literally nowhere inside the building where a lift of any sort could be inserted, until they realised there was room at the back to put an addition to hold the lift. She told me what that involved ............... designing an addition that fitted with the exterior appearance of the building (even though it was at the back); make appropriate opening in the outside wall of the building itself and "patch" accordingly. At every step, ensure that the building walls and floors can withstand the weight and work without collapsing. Get all the permissions and approvals of design from appropriate levels of government and agencies.

It took over 3 years.

Ramps can be added to outside steps, or inside when there are only 2 or 3 steps, but there has to be room for it.

I have used a cane for about 10 years, so she is well aware of problems faced by those with mobility problems, and goes to long lengths to discover if places are accessible when we go to stay with them, even to the extent of finding out that one can rent a wheelchair from IKEA, for nothing (though you have to leave proof of identity such as a driving license). Only then did she ask if I would like to shopping with her!

Sylvia, that is the problem. In this particular hotel, just the very way it was built, there isnt any room to put a lift which is why i think it is still without one. If there is lack of space, you cant make space appear can you!

Shirley, that was awful. I think I would have complained afterwards by letter and demanded a partial refund. What a cheek checking you for taking him some food, out of order!

Andys mum, yes that act is all well & good but if as I said there isn't the space within the building to install a lift and there are far too many stairs(12) to create a ramp, then its impossible to comply.

Florence in the hebrides

A house in our road had an "upstairs" which could only be accessed by a loft ladder so they installed a compact one-person lift to get to it.

Way to go Brian!
Wonder why they never put a staircase though initially?

Florence in the hebrides

Work began on the street I work in 1813 and all the buildings are cat A listed. We can’t fit a disabled ramp as there isn’t enough space. The shop is on the ground floor but the ground floor is only accessible by the stairs at the front or the stairs from the basement. The basement stairs are narrow and winding as it would originally have been the kitchen, washroom, pantry etc. This means it is also impossible for us to fit anything to the basement stairs. We have a wheelchair ramp at the backdoor and a fully accessible toilet in the basement incase anyone wants to use a meeting room.