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Hi
Im researching my family tree and my great grandfather was John Lyons born 1877(changed from Lyness in late 1800's). He had a brother James Lyness born about 1866. Their Father was Patrick Lyness born 1841. James Lyness was in prison in 1901 census. How would I find out what he was in for? Hes was born in Liverpool and in Walton Jail.


Many Thanks
Paul

In 1901 James gives his occupation as Stationary Engine Driver. There is this record on Findmypast where the occupation is given as Engine Driver:-

Record Transcription:
England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935

Piece number 233
Series HO140
Source A Calendar Of Prisoners In His Majesty's Prison Liverpool Tried Before At The Assizes For The Year 1904
Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
First name(s) James
Last name Lyness Or Lynas
Year 1904
Birth year 1866
Occupation Engine Driver
County Lancashire
Place -
Court Liverpool
Age 38
Date 13 Feb 1904
Victim's first name(s) Charles
Victim's last name Phillips
Victim 2 first name(s) William
Victim 2 last name Burns
Victim 3 first name(s) Catherine
Victim 3 last name Lewis
Collections from Great Britain, England
Subcategory Prison Registers
Category Institutions & organisations

The offence was breaking and entering and stealing goods.

1. At Liverpool on 5th December 1903, feloniously and burglariously did break and enter the dwelling house of Charles Phillips and steal a towel, a skirt, four binders and other articles the property of Charles Phillips.

2. At Liverpool on 12th December 1903 did feloniously and burglariously did break and enter the dwelling house of William Burns and steal therein a suit of clothes, a clock, three shirts and other articles the property of William Burns.

3. At Liverpool on 28th November 1903 did feloniously and burglariously did break and enter the dwelling house of Catherine Lewis and steal therein two necklets, a brooch, five skirts and other articles the property of Catherine Lewis.

18 months hard labour.

If it is the same person he seems to have been in and out of prison quite a few times for various crimes:-

3 months for wounding with intent. - 1885
4 months for burglary. - 1886
18 months burglary - 1887
12 months breaking and entering.
12 months house breaking



Kath. x

Thanks Kath !
wow, that's a lot of information, many thanks for the quick reply ! much appreciated

Paul

Paul, it's worthwhile joining 'Find My Past'!
I had an ancestor (brother of my gg grandfather) in prison, in Aylesbury, on the 1851 census.
I found out from newspapers what he was in for (trying to derail a train), and had been sentenced to 2 years, but then the trail went dead.
Years later, I joined FMP - and found out he had been transferred to a lunatic asylum in Peckham, London.
Not only that - he escaped twice!
On FMP, There were all the letters to and from the authorities.
The second time he escaped, after a quick search, as he'd been there 2 years, they declared him 'sane', and let him go. :-D

I then found, on FMP, he'd joined the Army, married, had children - everything!

Wow Maggie,
That is some story, nice it had a happy ending too !

I'm just getting started and am on Ancestry, I will look at find my past thanks. I'm looking at James Lyness , my great grandfathers brother as he does seem to have a colourful past.

Happy Researching
Paul

Hi,
James Lyness mentioned above, born 1866, parents Patrick Lyness(born 1841) and Ellen(born 1843) might of married, does anyone have any details of a possible marriage in the 1890's in Liverpool ?

The following is a good site for Lancashire births, marriages and deaths from July 1 1837 ....... .


http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

There seem to be 4 marriages fro a James Lyness between 1879 and 1896. I can't tell whether they are all the same person! All seem to have taken place in a Register Office.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LYNESS James MAHONEY Ellen West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/73/18

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1889
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LYNESS James WAFER Mary Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/201/90

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LYNESS James BOLTON Agnes West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/137/32

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LYNESS James WILSON Johanna Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/226/88


Look on Ancestry for the censuses following each marriage to see if the information fits your guy.

This could be Ellen Lyness's death

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1890
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
LYNESS Ellen 30 Howard Street Liverpool HOW/100/84


but I can't see any others on Lancs bmd

Many Thanks Sylvia !

well, it obviously isn't the 1879 marriage, because James was too young, and is at home with his parents in 1881!

James is shown as married in 1901.

I can't see the 1891 Census.

This is apparently James' birth registration from the GRO Index, which shows his mother's maiden name .....

LYNESS, JAMES mmn JOHNSON
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 121

BTW .....

I am not convinced that James and John had the same mother ...........

This is the 1871 Census from ancestry .

1871 Census

Name: Patrick Lynes
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Frances Lynes
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Household schedule number: 183
Piece: 3761
Folio: 19
Page Number: 31

Patrick Lynes 30 Labourer in Sugar Works
Frances Lynes 32 b.ca 1839, Ireland
James Lynes 4 b.ca 1867, Liverpool
Arther Lynes 1 b.ca 1870, Liverpool

Address:- 4 St Augustine Street

Living in the same building is Ellen McFarlane, Widow, who Patrick seems to marry before 1881. Her brother John Cosnon (?? spelling) is with her

from Freebmd ...........

Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
Lynes Patrick Liverpool 8b 454
McFarlane Ellen Liverpool 8b 454


You might want to follow this up with the Liverpool Catholic Marriages on Anceatry

Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1932

Name: Patritium Lyness
Marriage Date: 25 Jun 1876
Marriage Place: Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Johannis Lyness
Spouse: Ellenam Mcfarlane
Father: Henrici Cosnan

You can see the image from the registry

??????????

LYNAS, ARTHUR mmn DOWNEY
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 52

and this is a matching mmn for James born 1867

LYNAS, JAMES mmn DOWNEY
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 75


from freebmd

Marriages Sep 1859 (>99%)
Downey Frances Liverpool 8b 296
Lynes Patrick Liverpool 8b 296


from ancestry

Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932

Name: Frances Downey
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: Minor
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 24 Jul 1859
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Nicholas, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St Nicholas' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: John Downey
Spouse: Patrick Lynes

Name: Patrick Lynes
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: Full Age
Father: John Lynes

from image:- Patrick Occupation: Ropemaker


or have I gone completely off track???????

Wow Sylvia
You know your research, this is a new finding! Thanks for the information. I know John Lyness changed his name to Lyons between 1895 and 1901, his wedding in 1895 he was Lyness and in the 1901 census he was Lyon, in 1911 census Lyons. I will have a good look through your great information and have a look at ancestry.

Many Thanks !
Paul