General Chat

Its no problem to me Bob not cheeky but your request may of been missed.. :D

Yeah sorry about that,I was a bit cheeky there,
Many thanks for the Info Ladies, it seems he was a bit of a rogue?
although he must have seen a bit of action,

the medals were passed on to us from an elderly relative,
and it's likely the '39 medal was for one of his sons...
Many thanks, Bob

John
Last name Martin
Birth year 1866
Birth parish Christchurch
Birth town London
Birth county Middlesex
Birth country England
Service number 53214
Regiment Royal Artillery
Year 1886
Attestation date 05 Feb 1886
Attestation age years 20
Attestation age months 8
Attestation service number 53214
Attestation corps Royal Artillery
Discharge corps Royal Artillery
Document type Attestation
Series Wo 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913
Archive The National Archives

they have a year as 1866 so doubtful age
wise he would have been in WW2......

His service record gives more details.,,,,,he kept deserting.... :-D :-D.....mentioned also is his awards of clasps.SA medal and Diamond HIll etc.

Bob,

It would have been better to start your own thread, but since you are here, his army service records are on Findmypast. Gives his name and the age when attesting:-

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s) John
Last name Martin
Birth year 1866
Birth parish Christchurch
Birth town London
Birth county Middlesex
Birth country England
Service number 53214
Regiment Royal Artillery
Year 1886
Attestation date 05 Feb 1886
Attestation age years 20
Attestation age months 8
Attestation service number 53214
Attestation corps Royal Artillery
Discharge corps Royal Artillery
Document type Attestation
Series Wo 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913
Archive The National Archives
Archive reference WO 97
Box 5473
Box record number 124
Record set British Army Service Records
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain, England

He was absent without leave a couple of times and also deserted and imprisoned.
He was a driver at one point. Discharged as medically unfit in either 1901 or 1907 (not sure what it says). Don't think he would have been in WW2.

Kath. x

could anyone look up for me please NOT the '39 register, but boer war records.
(ancestry?)
Dr.(Driver?) J Martin 53214,of the 84th battery RFA (full name/age required, if possible)
I have a South Africa medal for him with bars
diamond hill, johannesburg, driefontein, cape colony.

there is also a '39-45 war medal(unnamed) I would like to know if he was young enough for ww2..
thanks Bob

Thank you Detective


Ernie did serve in army during WW2. Ted and Michael did national service and went to Malaya in the early 50's.

Found this about WW2 conscription

In October 1939 the British government announced that all men aged between 18 and 41 who were not working in ‘reserved occupations’ could be called to join the armed services if required. Conscription was by age and in October 1939 men aged between 20 and 23 were required to register to serve in one of the armed forces.

https://www.historyonthenet.com/world-war-two-conscription-definition/

If you know your Ernest served in the Forces, presumably he hadn’t voluntarily enlisted before then?

The Manchester Blitz 22/23 and 23/24 December 1940.

One of the places hit was St Mary's Maternity Hospital in Manchester with loss of lives.

The hospital was first evacuated to Blackpool and then to Prestbury, hence my birth there. .My mother lived just down the road from St Mary's and had been married then for just a year. when the bombings occurred . What an anniversary present. My dad was in the RAFVR at the time.

My Father died in 1974 I dont have his death cert and have no intension of ordering it. I was sat in the room when my Mothers death was registed and refused a copy of the death cert

No Stockport was not a big target as Manchester and Liverpool was. Perhaps the Luftwaffe was following the river mersey and took a wrong turning or they were after the Industrial Mills in Oldham or Stockport or the flight Navigator on the night was about as good at Map reading as I am, really crap.

oops ........

sorry about that Madge, but they didn't get the concentrated bombing that caused the evacuation early in the war was it?


My home town was also bombed several times as bombs intended for Manchester or Liverpool were misdirected or let go early. The one I remember and know about was on Christmas Eve 1944. The bomb landed about 300' from where we lived, and killing 26 people

I still remember being scared to death as we crouched on the stairs to the basement.



However, did my further explanation of the 1939 Register help you understand why your father might still be blacked out? Or did I waste my time?

Stockport was indeed bombed during WW2 infamously on a Christmas Eve.

Thank you very Much Kucinta, most interesting record there.

Looks like Helena Kelly was running a boarding house, her own parents did the same in Manchester when Helena Kelly was a young girl her parents were Irish immigrants. Ellen ( Mary Ellen) was one of her daughters to first husband and never married she was devoted to her mother, legend has it she was to take the veil but stayed to help her mother with the younger children whilst her Mother ran a second hand clothing stall/shop.She too passed away a few weeks after her Mother of a broken heart. Margaret Dempsey not spelt Dempsie on any other records.was her 7th child of 10 to her second husband. Interestingly enough Helena Kelly is by now a widow for the 3rd time but clearly shows on here as married.

I have been drawn to George Rob Lang 20 Sep 1888 I suspect he has a family connection. :-D


Once again a big Thank you x

Helena Kelly was living close by at 77 Hall St in 1939 (The Wildes were at no 74)

Gibbons Household (9 People) 77 Hall Street , Stockport C.B., Cheshire, England

Helena Kelly 17 Jan 1867 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 199 2<<<<<<<<<<<<
M Ellen Gibbons 30 Sep 1894 Female Dry Cleaner Heavy Worker Single 199 1
Margaret Dempsie 11 Oct 1902 Female Cotton Worker Heavy Worker Single 199 3
Richard Smith 10 Jul 1913 Male Rubber Moulder Heavy Worker Married 199 4
Rose Smith 31 Oct 1915 Female Unpaid House Duties Married 199 5
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
E Manuel Gabriel 12 Sep 1913 Male Instrument Fitter Heavy Worker Single 199 7
George Rob Lang 20 Sep 1888 Male Metal Polisher Heavy Worker Single 199 8
John Cunningham 21 Mar 1914 Male Sheet Metal Worker Heavy Worker Single 199 9

Surely she would not have been evacuated from Stockport???

It's not like it was London or Liverpool!


Madge .............. the NHS updated the 1939 Register until 1991 then stopped.

Anyone who died after 1991 will not have been noted as such by the NHS.

FMP is trying to update and open records for anyone who died after 1991 and the present day OR whose birthday is more than 100 years ago. But they mainly depend o npeople sending in proof of death, ie copy of death certificate, to open records.

It is apparently easy to do, if you want to take the trouble.

I've left my uncle and aunt's records, plus their 6 children ............... parents + 5 children emigrated to Australia, and I'm not about to go to the expense of trying to get death certificates for them when there are direct descendants also doing the family tree! I have found them to my satisfaction in 1939 ........ living at the address where we visited in the 1950s and early 1960s. That's enough for me :-D

Thanks Detective ..... They were devoted R/C if anything William could be away as I sure he was still a serving solider I think not 100%.

I not sure I never heard of them of being evactuated.Helena's Mother was bedridded Helena Kelly born 1867 Helena would not of left her, Helena Kelly died 1944 she was a widow. Ernest was called up Edwin was to young. Curious to know who the other blacked name was depending on the when register was taken it could of been my Dad but he would of been 17/18yrs I am sure he was called up in 1939.

The transcription is correct. Perhaps Helena had separated from her husband at the time? Widow could have been a face saving option.

Ernest was a labourer at an aviation works which would have been considered as ‘war work’.
Were you expecting Edwin to have been evacuated? Perhaps that, if it did happen, came later.

Thank you Safc I thought Ernie and Ted would be away that is them she was not widowed that is confusing she actually died 1st in 1951 and I thought they lived at 77 Hall St

Anyway thank you very much

????
Edwin Wilde on the 1939 Register

1939 Register Transcription

Wilde Household (6 People) 74 Hall Street , Stockport C.B., Cheshire, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Helena Wilde 08 Apr 1892 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 254 1
Ernest Wilde 19 Oct 1919 Male Labourer Aviation Works Single 254 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Edwin Wilde 21 Jul 1927 Male At School Single 254 4
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Sorry was cooking tea :)

I am looking for Helena Wilde born 1892 William Wilde Born 1892 either in Lancashire or Cheshire Also with them may be Eileen Wilde born 1935 may be blacked out and Michael Wilde born about 1929 the spelling for Helena may differ Elenor Eleanor or even Lena

Thank you Prickly Holly and Kathleen

I don't mind looking as well if you just post the details of who you are looking for.

Kath. x

I have access Madge if you would like to send me the details.

Prickles ;o))